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NEWS => Development News => Topic started by: Hoss on March 21, 2014, 08:42:45 PM

Title: Control Affects -- Next Wipe -- Don't stun me bro!
Post by: Hoss on March 21, 2014, 08:42:45 PM
Control affects are a new and major system in our upcoming development project. We all know how painful it is to be
blind for 10 minutes, or bashed into oblivion so we have come up with a new system to group affects together and allow
some protection from overuse. I have purposely removed any detailed numbers from this discussion so we could discuss how
it works. We want control affects to be useful without becoming overpowered and too dominant (i.e. bash).


Knockdown
These include any skill, spell or ability that well...knocks you down and changes your current position. When a
knockdown occurs a counter is placed on the victim for a short duration.  The counter stacks and begin reducing the
chance the next knockdown will land, so the more knockdown affects you have the less likely a new knockdown will occur.
The counter will continue to stack until the victim becomes immune to any new knockdown skill or spell. On the flip
side, once the counter expires it becomes easier to land a knockdown.

Disorient
These include skills or spells that block some but not all actions (e.g. Blind, Silence, Confusion etc.). Disorients
will land much more frequently than they currently do, making them a lot more effective as a control affect. The
disorient affects will be short duration, but very powerful. Once a disorient is applied to the victim, the victim is
immune to all disorient affects. This immunity lasts until either the duration wears off, or is removed by another spell
or skill.

Debilitate
These include skills or spells that block all actions (e.g. Stun, Paralysis, Hold Person etc.). Debilitating affects
have varying ratings and durations. The rating defines the chance the debilitate will break the next time damage is
applied and acts as a stacking counter to determine if new debilitation affects can be applied to the victim. The rating
is only removed when the duration of the affect expires, meaning even if the debilitate is removed via damage taken, the
rating is still somewhat protecting the victim from the next debilitation attempt.
Title: Re: Control Affects -- Next Wipe -- Don't stun me bro!
Post by: corey on March 21, 2014, 10:26:23 PM
Control affects are a new and major system in our upcoming development project. We all know how painful it is to be
blind for 10 minutes, or bashed into oblivion so we have come up with a new system to group affects together and allow
some protection from overuse. I have purposely removed any detailed numbers from this discussion so we could discuss how
it works. We want control affects to be useful without becoming overpowered and too dominant (i.e. bash).


Knockdown
These include any skill, spell or ability that well...knocks you down and changes your current position. When a
knockdown occurs a counter is placed on the victim for a short duration.  The counter stacks and begin reducing the
chance the next knockdown will land, so the more knockdown affects you have the less likely a new knockdown will occur.
The counter will continue to stack until the victim becomes immune to any new knockdown skill or spell. On the flip
side, once the counter expires it becomes easier to land a knockdown.

Disorient
These include skills or spells that block some but not all actions (e.g. Blind, Silence, Confusion etc.). Disorients
will land much more frequently than they currently do, making them a lot more effective as a control affect. The
disorient affects will be short duration, but very powerful. Once a disorient is applied to the victim, the victim is
immune to all disorient affects. This immunity lasts until either the duration wears off, or is removed by another spell
or skill.

Debilitate
These include skills or spells that block all actions (e.g. Stun, Paralysis, Hold Person etc.). Debilitating affects
have varying ratings and durations. The rating defines the chance the debilitate will break the next time damage is
applied and acts as a stacking counter to determine if new debilitation affects can be applied to the victim. The rating
is only removed when the duration of the affect expires, meaning even if the debilitate is removed via damage taken, the
rating is still somewhat protecting the victim from the next debilitation attempt.

Are debilitate effects going to add, for instance, auto-knockdown landings like it works in today's game? Will sitting/resting actually exist(if so will damage change like today's game?) in the future of Arctic?

Are debilitates going to be lumped into a giant "all the spells will do this" or are they going to have some variation? (like Paralysis today sits a target)
Title: Re: Control Affects -- Next Wipe -- Don't stun me bro!
Post by: snax on March 22, 2014, 12:48:28 AM
If I wear an autosilence, which would probably make me more popular does that mean i'm automatically immune blind?

food for thought.
Title: Re: Control Affects -- Next Wipe -- Don't stun me bro!
Post by: Hoss on March 22, 2014, 10:07:56 AM
@Corey debilitates will not add a knockdown affect if they change your position. Any spell or skill that blocks the target from performing action will use the debilitate method, regardless of what it actually does to the victim.

@Snax No, you would become immune to silence. Immune_Silence would not make you immune to Blind, it would just make any silence disorient fail.
Title: Re: Control Affects -- Next Wipe -- Don't stun me bro!
Post by: corey on March 22, 2014, 11:42:02 AM
@Corey debilitates will not add a knockdown affect if they change your position. Any spell or skill that blocks the target from performing action will use the debilitate method, regardless of what it actually does to the victim.

@Snax No, you would become immune to silence. Immune_Silence would not make you immune to Blind, it would just make any silence disorient fail.

Sorry I think I worded my question badly... Will debilitate automatically guarantee knockdown effects landing in the future?
Title: Re: Control Affects -- Next Wipe -- Don't stun me bro!
Post by: Hoss on March 22, 2014, 01:07:50 PM
If you are held (debilitated) and then a player tries to bash you, the bash will still have to check against the knockdown cap. It would not bypass this check just because you cannot move.
Title: Re: Control Affects -- Next Wipe -- Don't stun me bro!
Post by: corey on March 22, 2014, 01:46:59 PM
If you are held (debilitated) and then a player tries to bash you, the bash will still have to check against the knockdown cap. It would not bypass this check just because you cannot move.

Thanks for clearing that up.

Wait, edit*

Does this mean there will be more skill-based decisions made mid-fight? Who has how many debilitate vs bash flags on them at any current time and the rates at which they decay?

X has been held for 3 rounds, hold wears in 1 round, it's finally time to use a knockdown flag to disable him.
Conversely: x has now been bashed twice and debilitate's immunity has worn off, but his anti_knockdown flag is now stacked high -> it is time to attempt a debilitate to disable him.
Title: Re: Control Affects -- Next Wipe -- Don't stun me bro!
Post by: corey on March 23, 2014, 07:19:05 AM
Slept on it and had one more question...will mobs be flagged the same as players? Will they become unbashable / undisorientable after a certain point? Is AMS being removed from mobs to allow rotations of disable types to kill healing mobs?
Title: Re: Control Affects -- Next Wipe -- Don't stun me bro!
Post by: Hoss on March 23, 2014, 11:59:48 AM
@Corey: Yes, we want players to make choices instead of just using 1 method for control. Bashing something every time it is up will not be as effective as it is today. To your second post; The system is for both players and mobs. There are a lot of fights that will be changed and flagged to better fit into this system and we know we may not get it perfectly right the first time around. To give more context to the system, classes will have more than 1 control affect, but it will require a well tuned group to coordinate each for perfect execution.
Title: Re: Control Affects -- Next Wipe -- Don't stun me bro!
Post by: corey on March 23, 2014, 12:41:30 PM
@Corey: Yes, we want players to make choices instead of just using 1 method for control. Bashing something every time it is up will not be as effective as it is today. To your second post; The system is for both players and mobs. There are a lot of fights that will be changed and flagged to better fit into this system and we know we may not get it perfectly right the first time around. To give more context to the system, classes will have more than 1 control affect, but it will require a well tuned group to coordinate each for perfect execution.

I'm going to prod with oneeeeeeeee more question. Hopefully the questions overall are more helpful to you guys than annoying, but...

You mention classes having more than one control effect. Is this going to be sort of like a WoW scenario where out of, let's say the 4 main tank classes (warrior, barbarian, dk, paladin), each one of them gets two different sets to remain different from each other yet similar?

For instance..Warrior / Barb will both have knockdowns, but for their secondaries, one will be a disorient and one will be a debilitate, whereas dk/paladin would have something similar in the sense that their "main" skill might be a disorient but their secondary a knockdown or debilitate(one each to spread it out again). Is this sort of where you're headed? Will certain knockdowns be less effective in both length and/or success rate from other classes?

Sorry if I'm reading too much into this already, quite curious.
Title: Re: Control Affects -- Next Wipe -- Don't stun me bro!
Post by: gnua on March 23, 2014, 08:16:50 PM
Will all knockdowns also be a deblitate (like current bash), or are we introducing the notion of a knockdown where one cannot stand but can still do other things (making it a bit more like a disorient), or are some knockdowns just going to let one stand up immediately?
Title: Re: Control Affects -- Next Wipe -- Don't stun me bro!
Post by: gulca on March 24, 2014, 01:48:39 PM
Quote
Bashing something every time it is up will not be as effective as it is today.

So, what do you expect a basher to do? Punch/bash once and smile pretty? I think bashers will continue to be bashing even if the chance drops by 50%.
Title: Re: Control Affects -- Next Wipe -- Don't stun me bro!
Post by: Hoss on March 24, 2014, 01:54:13 PM
@Gnua

@Corey
Title: Re: Control Affects -- Next Wipe -- Don't stun me bro!
Post by: SArT on March 24, 2014, 02:22:33 PM
Bear tank ftw.
Title: Re: Control Affects -- Next Wipe -- Don't stun me bro!
Post by: enochvey on March 24, 2014, 03:46:46 PM
Let me start off by saying that it's about time this stuff got looked at... Thank you!!

The amount of time I spend bashed/diso'd/hazed/confused/stuned etc. as a main tank is beyond absurd. Ranks/gear for saves/immunities only go so far, and in most major fights I tank, I end up having zero control over my character for a large portion of that fight.

This is especially bad for my group and irritating to me when it happens so often at the beginning of a fight. It is critical at that point in time to be able to control my character and use class defining skills such as ghostdance in order to survive what can sometimes be dmg that can almost 1 round me even with 850ish hp, steelskin rank and limit dam gear.

The same can be said about breech, given how powerful it is when used in combination with name-specific aliased rescues, especially on fights where mobs do a lot of re-targetting. I could rant about not being able to use other skills etc when they are most needed.. but I think the point has been made... I don't play arctic, and I don't play a tank to sit passively at my screen and watch my group get eaten alive.

That having been said let me give an example of what I do play games like this for...

I played guild wars 2, in the top tier of the three-way server battles for the better part of a year, as part of one of the most known/feared guilds playing the game at that time, Tempest Wolves. Our class composition for our groups, and a large part of our entire strategy revolved around the co-ordinated used of both crowd control and crowd control breakers.

You can see an example of it here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OY_04OGoNz8

One of the things guild wars 2 got right was it didn't follow the example of WoW and a number of other games in the way it implemented crowd control. It was't lop sided, favoring rogues, mages and warlocks for example. It also didn't use diminishing returns as a major mechanic in limiting the application of crowd control, but only as a minor mechanic in limiting it's duration.

Instead it followed a move:counter move philosphy that while not perfect, did amazingly well in comparison  to other games I've seen. It did a wonderful job of empowering players to actually use their characters during most of, if not the entirety of the fights they encountered. 

Having seen such a good example of what can be done with a crowd control/break/duration system, I really have to recommend that something similar is done here. Please do not use diminishing returns as the major mechanic in limiting the application of crowd/person  control. It is nothing more than the opposite, but equal side of the "Im have to sit here because I can't use my character" rant I started this post with.
 


Title: Re: Control Affects -- Next Wipe -- Don't stun me bro!
Post by: gulca on March 24, 2014, 06:46:23 PM
@enochvey Interesting concept if I read it correctly.

So in a well oiled system, we need to provide the mechanism to cause an effect (eg bash and lag) to a target, and a mechanism to cure the effect (eg remove lag).

What Arctic has now is just "causing an effect". You can resist/negate that effect (with no bash or hard bash) but you can't remove it.

Hoss presented a system that will increase the "resistance" of being bashed (and negate it if idiots kept on bashing) but still there is no removing the lag involved. This is a major improvement because limited hard-bash/nobash items are not involved.

Now if we have skills/spells that counter (ie remove) all types of control effects, then maybe fighting would last longer and players can do more (other than spamming their favorite spells/skills).

In Hoss example, when a cleric is bashed on entry, a groupie un-lag the cleric on the next round. Cleric stands up to heal/cure with the "resist-bash" flag still on for the next round. Or a smart cleric would "sit" and wait for idiots to try to over-bash and get "no-bash" flag and stands up the next round to heal.

Title: Re: Control Affects -- Next Wipe -- Don't stun me bro!
Post by: corey on March 24, 2014, 07:13:23 PM
Hoss: just fyi, if the thought hadn't crossed your mind yet...

You're going to have to make some sort of development decision when it comes to stacking debuff types between mobs and players.

What I mean by that is...

Let's say you have two invisible (to players) "has_been_knocked_down" flag stacks on a player. Is the current plan to differentiate stack types whether they come from a mob or a player?

I could (and will, if it goes in that way - and I won't be the only one) stack debilitate/knockdown debuffs on a player when there's no cause for alarm to have happen during a fight rather than when the mob feels like knocking down or disorienting players in my group (much more likely to happen at a bad time when I'm not deciding). This can really only be looked at as completely exploiting the game mechanics.

On the flip side, if the flags on a player are split between mobs and players, "has_been_knocked_down_by_player" and "has_been_knocked_down_by_npc" for instance, the stacks would be independent. This could also cause problems in that it might be a pain in the ass to code for charmies, would cause much easier player kills when catching people fighting mobs in a zone(which technically should be easier anyway).

I feel like I worded all of that poorly but it SHOULD be enough to get my thought across?
Title: Re: Control Affects -- Next Wipe -- Don't stun me bro!
Post by: Hoss on March 24, 2014, 08:36:59 PM
@Corey

It has crossed our minds, and while you could bash your cleric mid fight, you wouldn't be adding any immunity protection due to collusion. Also since most control affects will be short duration (rounds not tics), bashing your cleric out of combat to build up their immunity would be pretty short lived and not very effective.
Title: Re: Control Affects -- Next Wipe -- Don't stun me bro!
Post by: Hoodoo on March 24, 2014, 09:26:43 PM
To those who believe that bashers have no other raison d'etre than the ability to spam bash on stand, I say... you haven't been paying attention for the last 5 wipes, insofar as the changes in the class. 

A basher who doesn't trail kick low after a bash *currently*, or who doesn't take the chance to toss in a kick low rather than a low % sitting bash currently, is ignoring the chance to (at legend), both do oblit level damage and inflict a few *nasty* debil effects. 

A basher who ignores legend target's lack of lag, ability to control a fight in a way a barbarian or paladin simply cannot do, and also take advantage of some free +dam is really limiting his use of the classes' best options.

Bash is far from the end-all, be-all of warrior abilities.  While today's warrior does work primarily off bash unless he tanks (steelskin + legend parry + fortress + 28 dex = who the *bapt* needs a barb?), spambash warriors are the least useful of the possible playstyles right now.  This system of control effects is the best chance I've seen for today's warrior players to update their playstyle past the tactics of the late '90s.

Jason
Title: Re: Control Affects -- Next Wipe -- Don't stun me bro!
Post by: gnua on March 24, 2014, 11:16:24 PM
@Hoss, are you saying that if I get bashed, I will be able to stand/cast/quaff/recite right away without any lag? If not, then doesnt that mean that bash/knockdown has a short 'debilitate' that prevents me from doing stuff right away? I feel like I'm completely misunderstanding you.
Title: Re: Control Affects -- Next Wipe -- Don't stun me bro!
Post by: Hoss on March 25, 2014, 08:10:43 AM
@Gnua I don't see where I ever said anything like that, so no I am not saying if you get bashed you will be able to stand/cast/quaff/recite right away without any lag. A bash is not a paralysis or hold person spell, they are not the same, a bash does not add a debilitate affect. I thought I was clear on that in my earlier post that the control affects do not cross over.
Title: Re: Control Affects -- Next Wipe -- Don't stun me bro!
Post by: reed23 on March 25, 2014, 03:10:34 PM
Will all knockdown flags stack equally?  I.E.  Chance for 2nd bash to land = 20% reduction.  Chance for 2nd avenge leg to land = 20% reduction.  All knockdowns stack the same?
Title: Re: Control Affects -- Next Wipe -- Don't stun me bro!
Post by: gnua on March 25, 2014, 03:16:19 PM
Any spell or skill that blocks the target from performing action will use the debilitate method, regardless of what it actually does to the victim.

If knockdown/bash has no debilitate affect, and bash skill can still lag a target, then it would seem that knockdown lag would be a way to prevent escape actions without a debilitate...
Title: Re: Control Affects -- Next Wipe -- Don't stun me bro!
Post by: enochvey on March 25, 2014, 04:03:28 PM
@enochvey Interesting concept if I read it correctly.

So in a well oiled system, we need to provide the mechanism to cause an effect (eg bash and lag) to a target, and a mechanism to cure the effect (eg remove lag).

What Arctic has now is just "causing an effect". You can resist/negate that effect (with no bash or hard bash) but you can't remove it.

For the most part yes, but the details would be more difficult in a round-based combat system vs what they have in GW2.

That having been said, I think it could work very well with the four types of CC presented by hoss to have the ability to apply an effect, to negate/respond to that effect before the full duration has passed and even to protect beforehand from the application of an ability for a short time.

Some pretend examples:

Stability (Shamelessly stolen from gw2): If used before being on the receiving end of a knockdown, either prevents the application of ONE knockdown for up to 2-3 rounds, or enables the one being knocked down to get back up after redcuded (possibility eliminated) lag from the knockdown.

This would not be a spammable ability, but rather one that had a recharge timer of something like 4-6 combat rounds. Great for breaking your cleric out of a bash to get off a critical heal in pk, but not a "fire and forget" immunity.

Iron focus : Similar ability/mechanics as stability, only related specificly to disorient/haze type effects.

ETC.:

There are a number of ways this could be implimented, such as givng each class 1 breaker ability for one CC type, or even giving them the ability to break any of the specific CC types once on a 4-6 round timer.

There is also the possibility of adding a "universal CC breaker/prevented cc" on an even longer timer, but would depend entirely on the balance of the previously mentioned system. 
Title: Re: Control Affects -- Next Wipe -- Don't stun me bro!
Post by: Jarrad on March 25, 2014, 05:53:26 PM
Re Hoss, I noticed that in all three categories you included both spells and skills. I would love to see casters gaining access to knock downs, eg force bolt, granite hand similar type spells having an extra effect of bash being added, with the skill increasing with caster level but being capped around below average (basically what red robes get, but open the option of 1 or 2 spells at least per robe, and probably Druids also).

On the other side, I would love to see tank classes gaining some more options. Dks, scouts and paladins all have a few options for disorients between riposte, thrust and avenge. I would love to see melee based classes getting something like Bear Hug (sacrifice attacks for short term hold person) , and perhaps gaining something like nerve strike (primary disarming and preventing hitting and offhand disarming and preventing hitting or forcing to drop/be unable to use shield and held item), basically open up more options to all classes...

I am hoping you have an overhaul of skill and spell based disorients and debilitates to the effect that a thrust or riposte silence will work exactly like the spell (how this works with anti magic shell I leave up to you) in terms of having a spell based counter. Please allow spells like cure malevolence, heal, dispel magic, free action etc to counter skill based disorients/debilitates as well as spell based disorients/debilitates.
Title: Re: Control Affects -- Next Wipe -- Don't stun me bro!
Post by: Hoss on March 25, 2014, 05:59:44 PM
@Enochvey I enjoyed GW2 (for a short time) and did borrow some of the philosophy and methodology from that game and other games along the way. There will be ways that a victim and/or the victim's party to remove a control affect. I can't go into a lot of detail here because again that will be discovered in class design discussions, but the goal is to not have a diminishing return system but more of a tactical/situational system.

@reed23 Yes, they will roughly be equivalent. We do not want to see one knockdown become more effective than another knockdown, but there are some differences so they are not all exactly the same.

@Gnua I give up on the semantics discussion with you. Bash does not add paralysis today, and it won't do anything like that in the future. Knockdowns use other methods i.e. bash lag for the 'control' aspect. If you are bashed, you won't be able to automatically stand up and quaff a potion as you are affected by the control aspect of being bashed. I thought this was pretty clear so I apologize if you have misunderstood this.

@Jarrad Keep an eye out for class design discussions
Title: Re: Control Affects -- Next Wipe -- Don't stun me bro!
Post by: haphazard on March 25, 2014, 07:01:08 PM
I don't have anything important to add to the conversation besides tipping my hat to Hoss and Aristox for promptly addressing and answering individual questions to the best of their ability at this point. I look forward to NewArcticGame and the proposed changes thus far are intriguing. I cannot wait to see them in action someday. Thanks to you, and all other immortals, for your hard work and dedication while gaining virtually nothing in return. I love this game.
Title: Re: Control Affects -- Next Wipe -- Don't stun me bro!
Post by: enochvey on March 26, 2014, 11:08:17 AM
There will be ways that a victim and/or the victim's party to remove a control affect. I can't go into a lot of detail here because again that will be discovered in class design discussions, but the goal is to not have a diminishing return system but more of a tactical/situational system.

Woot
Title: Re: Control Affects -- Next Wipe -- Don't stun me bro!
Post by: blackmagus on March 26, 2014, 08:06:09 PM
Really curious if that means that gear which causes blindness will be a must have for area of effect casters and rotating healers? Or will this new system not take into effect blind/silence/etc effects coming from gear or ranks?
Title: Re: Control Affects -- Next Wipe -- Don't stun me bro!
Post by: Aristox on March 26, 2014, 09:54:38 PM
Only effects caused by a spell are counted.  Just being blinded will not make you immune to things, you will have to be blinded by a spell.   There are specs out there that will add blind/silence/etc flags which will avoid this system as well.  Spells and skills are the only way the immunity is applied.
Title: Re: Control Affects -- Next Wipe -- Don't stun me bro!
Post by: Kir on March 30, 2014, 11:53:17 AM
Hello!

Although this post will probably be unpopular, my question is this:

Without being able to bash somebody multiple times in a row, how is successful pk going to be possible? In mmo's pk is always possible because people can't recite recall and end up half a world away in a safe room. If they get attacked, they have to run, and the attacker can chase firing missiles attacks. In a game like arctic, you need stuff like bash, nightmare, paralyze, holds, etc to actually kill people, that or huge spike damage, otherwise they will just recall every time.

I think if we are going to ditch the unique aspect of arctic mud and copy the mmo's, then we should also have to remove the instant recall ability as well. In real pvp mmo's, like Darkfall for example, you cannot instantly recall. Recalling takes something like 90-120 seconds to cast, which makes sense. If players have no way to really keep another player from recalling, the 60-120 second recall timer is the only thing that allows actual pvp to take place. However, in arctic that would screw up recalling from pvE fights. So a way to combat that would be that the 90-120 second cast time of recall is only activated when the 3 tic pvp flag is activated on the person who was attacked.
Title: Re: Control Affects -- Next Wipe -- Don't stun me bro!
Post by: enochvey on March 30, 2014, 02:28:10 PM
Hello!

Although this post will probably be unpopular, my question is this:

Without being able to bash somebody multiple times in a row, how is successful pk going to be possible? *snip*

Because there are going to be multiple ways to prevent recalling on different timers/penalty counters. Hoss hinted towards more of an explanation on how this will flesh out when the class discussion starts.

Im taking a wild guess.. but think the disorient type effect from punch (and other new fun skills hopefully) will land far more often, giving those with a knockdown and that effect (punch AND bash) at their disposal multiple, non-spammable ways to prevent the recall, provided the victim has already exchausted their means of countering those effects.

I could be wrong, but the days of;

"oh look a couple people showed up in the same room I'm in and a fight started... and wow look I started the fight from perfect to dead with zero control over my character"

will be at least somewhat over, and I say good riddance.

 
Title: Re: Control Affects -- Next Wipe -- Don't stun me bro!
Post by: Kir on March 30, 2014, 03:54:17 PM
Yes but if you read my post, you would understand that the point I am making is that if "those days are over" as you say, nobody is going to be idiotic enough to stick around and get pked while an instantaneous recall is in the game. My point is, if somebody is not wait_stated or stunned\held they will either flee or recall to escape. The only people who die will be those afk who aren't bright enough to write simple triggers.

By adding a 90-120 cast on word of recall scrolls\pots\wands flag while the character being attacked has the 3 tic pvp flag would be the only way I can see to avoid this.
Title: Re: Control Affects -- Next Wipe -- Don't stun me bro!
Post by: enochvey on March 30, 2014, 07:06:13 PM
I understood your point and I'd say your're largely (not entirely) wrong.

When a group tries to hunt and kill a single player, you're right in the fact that it will be easier (not assured) for a person who is at a blatant no-win sitation to get out alive provided they don't make any real attempt to fight back. This is not a problem. It is a solution a ciritical game design flaw philosophy that arctic has had as long as I've played it, and that many other MMO's have had until people finally found something better and moved on.

That flaw has a number of faces. One is the idea that a pk system should favor those in greater numbers no matter what. That time spent waiting to set an ambush in motion while at the log-in screen (eve online anyone?) is equally important, and often FAR more important than the time spent actually playing characters in game. That flaw is the idea that the results of the time, energy, etc invested into your character will usually mean nothing when you need them the most if you happened to have been on the wrong side of the log-in war.. I could go on and on. 

I don't do pk on this game currently for those reasons and more. When the time I'd spend innsitting, or more appropriately, log-in screen sitting has a greater impact on the outcome of an individual battle, or even a wipe-long war than what I am able to do in the middle of combat, then what exactly is the point...?

For someone like myelf who PvP's in other games to be challenged by the skill.. not the number of my opponents... to learn to respect their control over their character(s) or die for my own blunders, rather than their ability to say "log now" in ventrilo and steamroll me regardless... there is none.

Now if Im actually given the ability to fight back, or at a bare minimum a reasonable chance that leaving the inn isn't certain death, you open up an entirely new part of this game to me and I am certain I am not the only one. Give me the necessary tools to fight and I will be more than happy to take the same chances in Pvp that I do in Pve..

I will not be instantly recalling.

You have died 41 horrible deaths.....
 
Title: Re: Control Affects -- Next Wipe -- Don't stun me bro!
Post by: Thymorical on April 13, 2014, 12:18:49 PM
Not that it really matters being Im come off like a troll for saying it.. but I just don't believe you guys should fix game mechanics that are not broken.. I suspect next wipe will be fooming, Broken, and just buggy as hell next wipe.. If I could gain just 1more exp I would for sure be way more optimistic about how this is all going to get coded.
Title: Re: Control Affects -- Next Wipe -- Don't stun me bro!
Post by: Kitz on April 14, 2014, 10:18:55 PM
Are there going to be any spells or abilities that will remove these flags? As an example, would mages get a spell that would make the mob easier to bash halfway through a fight?
Title: Re: Control Affects -- Next Wipe -- Don't stun me bro!
Post by: Thymorical on April 23, 2014, 10:05:28 PM
Im not to sure about this one. Maybe this could be stretched over on a skill like stance for dark knights. Maybe if you guys want all classes to get this you could give them there own version of this skill to everyone. so if your more prepared for combat you could be more resilient to these attacks.. and if your not tanking maybe you wanna be in a more offensive stance. I think if we tried we can come to some kinda balance with that system.
Title: Re: Control Affects -- Next Wipe -- Don't stun me bro!
Post by: Hoss on April 24, 2014, 08:56:08 AM
Quote
Are there going to be any spells or abilities that will remove these flags?
Yes, we are thinking that most affects will have a counter measure designed into it. For example, your cleric gets held via the 'hold person' spell so the mage uses 'free action' on him. This would remove the affect, but also reset the counter on the debilitate and removing any immunity from the cleric vs. debilitates.