Author Topic: Barack Obama: Great President? Or the Greatest President?  (Read 14551 times)

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Kuss

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Re: Barack Obama: Great President? Or the Greatest President?
« Reply #15 on: April 23, 2014, 02:44:22 AM »
Looking at the Crimea situation to in any way reflect on Obama is just foolish. Russia was going to protect it's bases in the same way any modern power would. The fact that Ukraine's sovereign land got put up for a vote is disconcerting, sure, but what were the alternatives? Was Europe as a whole going to step in and try to out-muscle Putin? No.  That would only happen if Putin had grabbed at all of Ukraine which he seems to have backed down from. So Ukraine as a whole will lean even more western and Putin will enjoy his public opinion polls in Russia because they appear to be strong. Economic reality will set in though and Russia is poised to do poorly, a recession is in serious question. That will curb the huge approval rating. Everything will sort of level out.

How this is any reflection of western politics is beyond me.

snax

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Re: Barack Obama: Great President? Or the Greatest President?
« Reply #16 on: April 23, 2014, 09:06:56 AM »
and this thread has officially jumped it's track.

go amtrak go.

Kragg

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Re: Barack Obama: Great President? Or the Greatest President?
« Reply #17 on: April 23, 2014, 02:34:48 PM »
I am not sure how this Ukraine situation will worsen this potential Russian recession you predict.  Seems to me someone will be paying (actually paying and in advance to boot) Russia twice as much for gas now that Ukraine has lost the 'friends and family' discount.  I see that as quite the recession fighter.

Putin (nor I) believe the 'West' has any stomache for real military support for Ukraine.  Not even considering the huge cost of yet another exported war, why would they? This isn't Iraq where there is oil or Afganistan where Bin Laden needed to be dealt with.  Ukraine is a financial money pit for whichever 'Empire' controls it with no real upside.  Putin could take it if he wants it within a week and, while there would be lots of chatter, nobody would stop him.  He only will take it if he has to though as Ukraine will remain in the Russian sphere of influence anyways.  Putin certainly didn't 'back down' out of fear as nobody could predictably kick his ass there.

Frankly, I find all this sabre rattling about preserving the 'territorial integrity' of Ukraine amusing.  I don't remember this language used when Yugoslavia was being dismembered.  It is further amusing as Crimea wasn't even part of Ukraine before Krushchev gave it as a gift.

My view, as an ethnic Ukrainian living in the west, is that squabbling over Ukraine isn't worth the risk.  Divide it in half and be done with it.

Let the derailed train roll on!

fran

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Re: Barack Obama: Great President? Or the Greatest President?
« Reply #18 on: April 24, 2014, 09:18:50 AM »
  @Kragg

  I think you mean "troll on".

  It is interesting to see these perspectives.


  @Kuss

  You basically are showing your willful ignorance on how the world really is, and not just the US media propaganda.  The situation in the Ukraine is pertinent to the original post because it shows just how weak the west is with Obama as the figurehead.  You can sing paeans as you worship at the foot of Obama all you want, but the fact is he is a terrible president that has left the US weak, fractured, and less free than when he began.  He not only continued the policies of Bush but broadened them while refusing to execute US law and trampling the Constitution of the United States.  He has done more to get impeached than any other president that has been impeached, yet people continue to cheer his lawless behavior on.  Since he constantly denies knowledge of any of the scandals that have come up continually, he is either completely incompetent or criminal. 
 
  This is with just going with what the mainstream media touts without even going into conspiracy theories.  There was a time when you could have rational discussions of ideas between liberals and conservatives.  Even during the worst times of the Bush era, the conversations were respectful in general.  Once Obama was elected(and this was even more true during the 2012 campaign) any rational discussion seemed to die and if you didn't like Obama's policies you suddenly were a racist, stupid, and a danger to society.  Consistently, Obama supporters have feel back to blaming Bush for every little problem, as well as using Bush to justify what the Obama administration has done.  Fact is, Bush was a terrible president too and just because one retard smears shit on the wall isn't a justification for you to do the same.  We went from removing the Great Writ from American citizens to killing American citizens and their family without due process.  Yet the people still cheer. 

  Anyhow, that all was probably a waste of my time and people get the governance they deserve.  It's a symptom of the failings in society more than anything.  Hurray for entitled self-indulgent brats with no understanding of reality.   

btown

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Re: Barack Obama: Great President? Or the Greatest President?
« Reply #19 on: April 25, 2014, 09:42:53 AM »
^^^^^^ KUSS BURNED ^^^^^^

btown

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Re: Barack Obama: Great President? Or the Greatest President?
« Reply #20 on: April 25, 2014, 09:53:43 AM »

eli

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Re: Barack Obama: Great President? Or the Greatest President?
« Reply #21 on: April 25, 2014, 02:13:16 PM »
  @Kragg

  I think you mean "troll on".

  It is interesting to see these perspectives.


  @Kuss

  You basically are showing your willful ignorance on how the world really is, and not just the US media propaganda.  The situation in the Ukraine is pertinent to the original post because it shows just how weak the west is with Obama as the figurehead.  You can sing paeans as you worship at the foot of Obama all you want, but the fact is he is a terrible president that has left the US weak, fractured, and less free than when he began.  He not only continued the policies of Bush but broadened them while refusing to execute US law and trampling the Constitution of the United States.  He has done more to get impeached than any other president that has been impeached, yet people continue to cheer his lawless behavior on.  Since he constantly denies knowledge of any of the scandals that have come up continually, he is either completely incompetent or criminal. 
 
  This is with just going with what the mainstream media touts without even going into conspiracy theories.  There was a time when you could have rational discussions of ideas between liberals and conservatives.  Even during the worst times of the Bush era, the conversations were respectful in general.  Once Obama was elected(and this was even more true during the 2012 campaign) any rational discussion seemed to die and if you didn't like Obama's policies you suddenly were a racist, stupid, and a danger to society.  Consistently, Obama supporters have feel back to blaming Bush for every little problem, as well as using Bush to justify what the Obama administration has done.  Fact is, Bush was a terrible president too and just because one retard smears shit on the wall isn't a justification for you to do the same.  We went from removing the Great Writ from American citizens to killing American citizens and their family without due process.  Yet the people still cheer. 

  Anyhow, that all was probably a waste of my time and people get the governance they deserve.  It's a symptom of the failings in society more than anything.  Hurray for entitled self-indulgent brats with no understanding of reality.

The fox news is strong with this one. You sir are going places! I hear Clive Bundy is looking for miltiamen to enslave the...

eli

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Re: Barack Obama: Great President? Or the Greatest President?
« Reply #22 on: April 25, 2014, 02:16:25 PM »

reed23

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Re: Barack Obama: Great President? Or the Greatest President?
« Reply #23 on: April 25, 2014, 02:51:44 PM »
It blows my mind that private insurance companies must accept people with pre-existing conditions.  Let's see if this makes economic sense: Hey, I want to sign up for health insurance, but I take prescriptions that cost $5,000 a month.  I am willing to pay you $750 a month for the insurance.  Yes, we will accept you now because we are charging Reed's young family 10000x of what they really should be paying!

fran

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Re: Barack Obama: Great President? Or the Greatest President?
« Reply #24 on: April 25, 2014, 02:59:23 PM »
 Eli, that's pretty much intellectual dishonesty, and you prove my point.  Similar to how this thread is the same intellectual dishonesty that liberals have latched onto.  The question is whether Obama is a great president or the greatest president is a dishonest question.  You are given two relative options that are undefined that are used as a tool to cause controversy.  Another term for it would be rabble-rouser.  When those that do not accept either of those two choices as defined by themselves, they are attacked for what they think so there is no real discussion that can take place, just a stating of opinion and moving on.   

  As I mentioned before, this is pretty much a waste of time. 

Kuss

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Re: Barack Obama: Great President? Or the Greatest President?
« Reply #25 on: April 25, 2014, 10:51:16 PM »

  This is with just going with what the mainstream media touts without even going into conspiracy theories.  There was a time when you could have rational discussions of ideas between liberals and conservatives.  Even during the worst times of the Bush era, the conversations were respectful in general.  Once Obama was elected(and this was even more true during the 2012 campaign) any rational discussion seemed to die and if you didn't like Obama's policies you suddenly were a racist, stupid, and a danger to society.  Consistently, Obama supporters have feel back to blaming Bush for every little problem, as well as using Bush to justify what the Obama administration has done.  Fact is, Bush was a terrible president too and just because one retard smears shit on the wall isn't a justification for you to do the same.  We went from removing the Great Writ from American citizens to killing American citizens and their family without due process.  Yet the people still cheer. 

Really? That was Obama's fault. The discourse in Washington has gone south because rational debates over his policies were met with derision? OR maybe it has to do with the rightwing nutjobs who have hijacked the party fueled heavily by talk radio whose job is basically to fan the flames of said nutjobs.  How many accusations of Obama being a muslim from Kenya were taken seriously by Foxnews and other right leaning media outlets? How can you have serious policy debates with people who are completely irrational. That ignorant wing of the party that the Republicans refuse to distance themselves from has hurt them and you can not blame that on Obama; that is a self inflicted wound. Even Foxnews cut ties with the likes of Glenn Beck, once they realized the inmates were starting to run the asylum.

Never has one party embraced ignorance so openly as the Republican party currently does. Almost every talking point is hyperbolic and the party as a whole seems to have lost it's way.

It blows my mind that private insurance companies must accept people with pre-existing conditions.  Let's see if this makes economic sense: Hey, I want to sign up for health insurance, but I take prescriptions that cost $5,000 a month.  I am willing to pay you $750 a month for the insurance.  Yes, we will accept you now because we are charging Reed's young family 10000x of what they really should be paying!

You do realize that is how all insurance works, right? The whole point of Obama targeting younger and healthier people to enroll was to help lower the costs of the people who need it most. And in a lot cases you never know when you yourself might be in legitimate need of it. Insurance companies have gone along with it because they are guaranteed more customers. If people want to be pissed at Obama for Obamacare it should be because the insurance companies basically wrote the bapting thing. They even got away with not having to cross state lines with competition. Healthcare costs go up for the same reason tuition costs do: because they can. I was actually more in favor of a public option to help undercut the inherit graft in the health insurance industry. Obama backed away from that because Republicans kept screaming socialist so he figured he'd negotiate from a compromised position to start with, which is dumb.

Eli, that's pretty much intellectual dishonesty, and you prove my point.  Similar to how this thread is the same intellectual dishonesty that liberals have latched onto.  The question is whether Obama is a great president or the greatest president is a dishonest question.  You are given two relative options that are undefined that are used as a tool to cause controversy.  Another term for it would be rabble-rouser.  When those that do not accept either of those two choices as defined by themselves, they are attacked for what they think so there is no real discussion that can take place, just a stating of opinion and moving on.   

  As I mentioned before, this is pretty much a waste of time. 

The thread was tongue in cheek and meant to rile up right wing crazies. You obviously have never watched an episode of Stephen Colbert's show when he'd pose the same question to democrats about President Bush.

Kuss

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Re: Barack Obama: Great President? Or the Greatest President?
« Reply #26 on: April 25, 2014, 10:56:04 PM »
@brandon

Most of your little bullet points are irrelevant, untrue or half truths.

btown

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Re: Barack Obama: Great President? Or the Greatest President?
« Reply #27 on: April 29, 2014, 09:18:46 AM »
which ones?  give me 2 examples

Eli its amazing that you know me in real life.  however your comment did give me a glimpse of your real life which seems sad so I am sorry for u

eli

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Re: Barack Obama: Great President? Or the Greatest President?
« Reply #28 on: April 30, 2014, 09:04:48 AM »
which ones?  give me 2 examples

Eli its amazing that you know me in real life.  however your comment did give me a glimpse of your real life which seems sad so I am sorry for u

Yo i actually should apologize because I thought you were bryton.

I still stand by my assertion that the health care law will overall move our country in the right direction. Denial for pre-existing conditions, while it makes good business sense, is morally reprehensible. You can't ignore that the majority of bankruptcies are caused by medical bills, that hospitals charge outrageous prices because consumers don't have choice and that it simply wasn't working. Perhaps the affordable care act wasn't as good as it should have been but something had to be done.

The real problem is all the lobbyists. I think everyone in this thread would agree that comcast merging with time warner is a terrible idea.

SArT

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Re: Barack Obama: Great President? Or the Greatest President?
« Reply #29 on: April 30, 2014, 02:09:41 PM »
Whether Reed's young family pays higher insurance to pay for these MOOCHES insurance, or higher insurance because the same MOOCHES default on their debt makes no difference.

Debates like this are a waste of time.  The problem with politics is everyone tries to fix symptoms of a problem rather than the problem itself.

The society in the US at least is going downhill...

Root causes IMO:

Welfare system
Court of Appeals

I am not above genocide to clean out our prison systems either.

SArT