Author Topic: Armor -- Next Wipe  (Read 6267 times)

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Nasredin

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Re: Armor -- Next Wipe
« Reply #45 on: March 06, 2014, 07:02:08 AM »
Thank you for the software development lifecycle 101 from your 1989 college textbook. It didn't add anything to the discussion but at least you listed out 2 points you wanted addressed.
...
We did not want want to design equipment with every possible scenario covered

Well, I guess it was all my mistake. You listed your goals and presented a game design that I didn't like. I expected that the design was open for discussion and that we could consider alternative solutions and tried to suggest a suitable framework for a constructive discussion.

However, it seems that you have already made the final choice. If you stated at the very beginning that you've already made the decision and no alternative designs were to be considered, that would save both you and me some time.

After all, it's your sandbox, you can make any decisions you like. However, I still don't like the design you suggested.


Quote
I mean more armor is always better right? RIGHT?

It's a game. Certainly, we don't need no realism here.

http://clck.ru/972yH

« Last Edit: March 06, 2014, 07:03:52 AM by Nasredin »

Hoss

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Re: Armor -- Next Wipe
« Reply #46 on: March 06, 2014, 08:16:18 AM »
@Nasredin, I wasn't attacking your criticism of the proposed system. I was pointing out that you were kind of telling Aristox (who has over 20 years in the software development industry) how to develop things. I wanted to you stick to the topic which was armor and not "In communist Russia software develops you".

gnua

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Re: Armor -- Next Wipe
« Reply #47 on: March 06, 2014, 02:48:03 PM »
I've been wearing tarsis cloth belt packs on every character for years so that kenders wouldn't steal more than one recall. Will there be shops selling wearable belts of higher armour, or should all my characters start planning on running around ansalon wearing only a fanny pack?
« Last Edit: March 06, 2014, 06:24:21 PM by gnua »

Dyl

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Re: Armor -- Next Wipe
« Reply #48 on: March 06, 2014, 05:31:32 PM »
What about a new flag ornamental for items that don't provide armor but fill slots like backpacks belts cloaks necklaces etc?

Davy

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Re: Armor -- Next Wipe
« Reply #49 on: March 06, 2014, 08:22:26 PM »
Plated Tarsis fanny pack, ball/vag protector, comes in pink, green or yellow neon. I am looking forward to changes and am glad we have a staff that can work the interweb good. If this was reddit my gramer would be down voted but it ain't reddit and it ain't nothin but forward progress in a dynamic game I love.

gnua

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Re: Armor -- Next Wipe
« Reply #50 on: March 06, 2014, 08:33:14 PM »
What about a new flag ornamental for items that don't provide armor but fill slots like backpacks belts cloaks necklaces etc?

Maybe non-magical stuff could be enchanted up a level or something

Alecto

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Re: Armor -- Next Wipe
« Reply #51 on: March 10, 2014, 05:30:23 PM »
The kender in bali4 load some VERY nice leather pouches...

lurker

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Re: Armor -- Next Wipe
« Reply #52 on: July 17, 2014, 10:19:02 AM »
I'm a big nobody, but I wanted to share my $.02

Multiplying armor by the lowest piece seems to be a poor way to do things.  A couple issues.

1- As pointed out by many others, it's common to wear a cloth belt pouch or backpack or other such item, it'll feel very awkward if a metal-wearing class is basically denied the ability to wear a container, while it will also feel awkward if the shops start selling "cloth belt pack, leather belt pack, chain mail belt pack, plate belt pack"- it just seems silly and unrealistic.

2- Is this drawback really going to serve it's purpose?  I think most of the time, when a warrior wants to nab a cloth +damage + hitroll item ,he doesn't really care one bit about losing armor.  I get that you are trying to make armor more important, but when that warrior expects to tank he will just remove his cloth + damage and container it, as has always been the case, because risk of frag while tanking already works as a disincentive towards wearing cloth or leather material armor.  While serving as a DPS role, the warrior isn't going to care about losing armor, and will go ahead and wear the cloth or leather items.

3- It removes part of the benefit of being able to wear any armor.  Instead, the benefit becomes "you can wear any armor, but it's not plate you are screwing yourself". 

4- No more pirates.  You wear an eye-patch, you just threw away all your armor.  Without pirates, arctic is pointless.  Nobody is going to want to play a MUD without pirates, be realistic.  And no, you can't easily fix this by making a metal eye-patch, because then you can't wear it if you are a thief.  Either you screw warrior pirates, or you screw thief pirates, it's no bueno.

5- You can't wear a cloak over your armor anymore?  Unless it's a metal cloak?  Itemization hell, that now you have to go through all cloaks and flag them as different materials so as to give all classes options for conceal.

6- You can achieve the goal without this silly armor restriction.  How? You want to make leather gloves that a warrior won't steal?  Easy.  just give them +dex instead of +damage.  Dex classes will be gaining damage from dex anyway, and now they aren't so desirable to a Str class.

Hoss

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Re: Armor -- Next Wipe
« Reply #53 on: July 17, 2014, 10:47:15 AM »
The only legitimate issue I see in this thread is that of pirates and eye patches, something we will be looking into.

All the other issues (cloth belt pouch, backpack, etc..) are moot.

1. Your cloth belt pouch and cloth robe are not flagged as armor, and are not counting in the armor rating sysytem.
2. We are not "trying" to make armor important in the new system. Armor "IS" very important in the new system and ignoring it as a tank would be a very poor option.
3. You can wear whatever you want, we are not removing that from the game, we are just adding an appropriately weighted penalty to offset the huge gains armor gives.
4. See above, very serious concern of mine.
5. Cloaks don't count as armor
6. It isn't about not allowing a warrior to wear cloth items or itemization of stats. It is about making sure the system can perform the calculations correctly so that you get the appropriate bonuses when you wear armor.



Bunsen

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Re: Armor -- Next Wipe
« Reply #54 on: July 17, 2014, 03:52:05 PM »
Will there be an easy method (lore or command) to determine what your current armor multiplier is? Or will it be a case of examining each piece of equipment and then doing some mental math?

Jorquin

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Re: Armor -- Next Wipe
« Reply #55 on: July 18, 2014, 12:40:32 AM »
i think personally arctic has never been entirely user friendly in regards to babying its players in the statistics and effects of equipment. its always been difficult to learn what some things do, or exactly what effect they're having. it's part of the fun, feeling clever when you work out what something does.

i think hard coding a way to "check" what your armour modifier is would go against that, it'd be better to just put either in the lores or on examine the type of armour it is, then leave it at that. players should have to work out the way they want to equip their character themselves, in my opinion.

Hoss

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Re: Armor -- Next Wipe
« Reply #56 on: July 18, 2014, 10:03:22 AM »
You will see the type (light, medium, heavy) in the inspect message of the object.

reed23

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Re: Armor -- Next Wipe
« Reply #57 on: July 18, 2014, 02:38:04 PM »
Any chance we can get an overall update on how lube project is coming along from Hoss/Aristox?

Thanks