Author Topic: Melee Attack Hit Chance -- Next Wipe  (Read 3358 times)

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Aristox

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Melee Attack Hit Chance -- Next Wipe
« on: January 30, 2014, 09:31:33 AM »
The Death of thac0

Thac0 as a concept is being removed from the game.

I am not sure how many of you know what thac0 is, or even care.  Some DnD purists might be upset by this change, but we had long ago reached the limit of the system.

Armor as a whole is getting overhauled, and I will go over that in a later post, but thac0 will not be part of it.  I will say that we want armor to mean something for players again, not be a throwaway stat that most players ignore.


Will it Hit?

With thac0 dead, we needed to come up with a new system for deciding if you hit or miss.

We decided to move to a % chance system.  We will combine a base chance (set per guild) with a large weapon skill bonus and the amount of hitroll on the hitter to come up with the percentage. 

The goal is to not allow anyone to have 100% chance to hit without having to put some effort into getting hitroll. We want the majority of melee swings at capped weapon skill for a melee class to hit, but if you have no hitroll you are going to miss quite a bit as well.  We have numbers on all of this already, but they aren't set in stone yet, so I don't feel comfortable sharing them.

The current plan is to expose your personal hit chance % in the score command. This bit isn't done yet because I am waiting to redo the score command as a whole later.

The % is a straight up hit chance, there is no value on the target that prevents the hit from happening.  Sort of..

We are making dodge, parry and shield block universal abilities that can be increased by having the skill.  Also, all 3 can be toggled on and off if you have skill.


Dodge

Every player and mob will have a % dodge chance based on their dexterity.  This can be increased through +dodge chance equipment or by the level of the dodge skill.

Toggling dodge off will remove any bonus from the dodge skill.

Dodge only works against the character you are directly fighting.

The mistake hit from dodging has been removed.  This means you won't be losing your charmies from a dodge hit anymore, because the hit won't happen.


Parry

Every player and mob will have a % parry chance based on their intelligence.  This can be increased through the level of the parry skill.

Toggling parry off will remove any bonus from the parry skill.  Toggling parry on will cause you to lose at least one attack per round.

Parry has also been expanded to work like the fence skill, in that it can work on a large number of attacks per round, from multiple attackers.  Really the parry skill was removed and then the fence skill was renamed to parry.  After that the numbers were reworked.


Shield Block

Every player and mob that is wearing a shield will have a % shield block chance based on their wisdom.  This can be increased through the level of the shield block skill.

Toggling shield block off will remove any bonus from the shield block skill.

Shield block only works against the character you are directly fighting.


The Stats Used for Dodge/Parry/Shield Block

Yes, INT for parry and WIS for shield block may not seem the most obvious, but we can't use DEX everywhere.  We want all the stats to have uses for all of the characters.

I have justifications for those stats, but I will keep them to myself for the moment.  This doesn't mean we won't change them later, or possibly use some combinations of stats.

I am sure you will have questions and comments on this, I will try to answer them.

gnua

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Re: Melee Attack Hit Chance -- Next Wipe
« Reply #1 on: January 30, 2014, 10:51:19 AM »
how will armor and bash/kick/punch fit into this? will bash/kick/punch be much like another weapon skill? will armor reduce the opponent's hit chance?

Aristox

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Re: Melee Attack Hit Chance -- Next Wipe
« Reply #2 on: January 30, 2014, 10:55:24 AM »
how will armor
I said I will write another post about armor later.

Quote from: gnua
and bash/kick/punch fit into this?
They don't.

Quote from: gnua
will bash/kick/punch be much like another weapon skill?
Nope.

Quote from: gnua
will armor reduce the opponent's hit chance?
Did you read the post?  The answer to your question is no.


This post is about melee weapon swings.  Skills are a totally different thing.

gulca

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Re: Melee Attack Hit Chance -- Next Wipe
« Reply #3 on: January 30, 2014, 01:26:48 PM »
About thaco, I killed a lot of brain cells trying to wrap around that concept when I was in middle school.

Nice changes to shield block, parry and dodge hits.

I hope that different weapon type will have innate +%parry on them. Like axe would have no parry bonus, while swords would have a little and staffs would have more.

So I'm assuming you don't need to initiate parry (waste an action) now? And I'm assuming turning the flag on and off will have lag associated with them.

Does it have like a partial parry (like shield block) based on parry skill and weapon used?
1. Max parry + Max weapon = full deflect (no damage) most of time on multiple hits
2. Max parry + low weapon = partial deflect (% of deflected dam depends on weapon skill) on multiple hits
3. Low parry + Max weapon = full deflect on single hit with low percent
4. Low parry + Low weapon = partial deflect on single hit with low percent

So parry skill control parry chance and max number of parry'able hits. Weapon skill controls the damage you can deflect on a successful parry.

Joe

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Re: Melee Attack Hit Chance -- Next Wipe
« Reply #4 on: January 30, 2014, 01:38:56 PM »
With this system it appears there will be a lot more missing, plus melee has to consider another stat in their equipping. Will this ripple into magic damage/hit chance balance vs. Melee or will the effect be minor enough that such an adjustment wont be needed?

corey

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Re: Melee Attack Hit Chance -- Next Wipe
« Reply #5 on: January 30, 2014, 02:40:22 PM »
I love the idea of moving to a hit % based system.

You mentioned you're not comfortable sharing these numbers at the moment. This means they will be shared? Can we have this hit % show in our score?

I love that this is moving to more of a wow-based raiding system in a sense. I like micro-managing my stats to gain efficiency overall.

Joe

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Re: Melee Attack Hit Chance -- Next Wipe
« Reply #6 on: January 30, 2014, 04:41:33 PM »
If they show hit % i get the feeling people will want to know dodge % and shield block %  or cry foul on imms cheating on their friends. I love the game but I do statistics all day for a living. I'm sure there are enough math oriented professionals playing that we don't want to turn our leisure periods into another excel spreadsheet.

Dyl

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Re: Melee Attack Hit Chance -- Next Wipe
« Reply #7 on: January 30, 2014, 06:19:02 PM »
Thief dodge?

Aristox

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Re: Melee Attack Hit Chance -- Next Wipe
« Reply #8 on: January 31, 2014, 01:03:05 PM »
About thaco, I killed a lot of brain cells trying to wrap around that concept when I was in middle school.

Nice changes to shield block, parry and dodge hits.

I hope that different weapon type will have innate +%parry on them. Like axe would have no parry bonus, while swords would have a little and staffs would have more.

So I'm assuming you don't need to initiate parry (waste an action) now? And I'm assuming turning the flag on and off will have lag associated with them.

Does it have like a partial parry (like shield block) based on parry skill and weapon used?
1. Max parry + Max weapon = full deflect (no damage) most of time on multiple hits
2. Max parry + low weapon = partial deflect (% of deflected dam depends on weapon skill) on multiple hits
3. Low parry + Max weapon = full deflect on single hit with low percent
4. Low parry + Low weapon = partial deflect on single hit with low percent

So parry skill control parry chance and max number of parry'able hits. Weapon skill controls the damage you can deflect on a successful parry.

Yes, toggling parry or dodge or shield block will give you a round of lag.  You can use the command to tell if you are parrying/dodging/shield blocking without any lag though.

As for your parry ideas (weapon skill/parry skill and parry bonuses on items), we haven't actually gotten to the point of rewriting the skill yet, just the system that invokes the chance to parry.  All skills will get a rewrite later once the base systems are done.  I will keep these ideas in mind when we get there. Thanks.

Aristox

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Re: Melee Attack Hit Chance -- Next Wipe
« Reply #9 on: January 31, 2014, 01:04:36 PM »
With this system it appears there will be a lot more missing, plus melee has to consider another stat in their equipping. Will this ripple into magic damage/hit chance balance vs. Melee or will the effect be minor enough that such an adjustment wont be needed?

We haven't gotten to spell hit chance yet.  It will be changing as well, so expect it to be similar to the melee one.

Aristox

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Re: Melee Attack Hit Chance -- Next Wipe
« Reply #10 on: January 31, 2014, 01:08:15 PM »
I love the idea of moving to a hit % based system.

You mentioned you're not comfortable sharing these numbers at the moment. This means they will be shared? Can we have this hit % show in our score?

I love that this is moving to more of a wow-based raiding system in a sense. I like micro-managing my stats to gain efficiency overall.

Yes, the % chance will be available, probably in score (I am considering breaking the score command up into smaller bits).

Aristox

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Re: Melee Attack Hit Chance -- Next Wipe
« Reply #11 on: January 31, 2014, 01:09:56 PM »
If they show hit % i get the feeling people will want to know dodge % and shield block %  or cry foul on imms cheating on their friends. I love the game but I do statistics all day for a living. I'm sure there are enough math oriented professionals playing that we don't want to turn our leisure periods into another excel spreadsheet.

I doubt that will happen (the spreadsheet stuff).  If it does, let me know and we can make things more cut and dry.

Aristox

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Re: Melee Attack Hit Chance -- Next Wipe
« Reply #12 on: January 31, 2014, 01:10:40 PM »
Thief dodge?

Yes, thieves have dodge currently.  Was there more to your question?

Hoss

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Re: Melee Attack Hit Chance -- Next Wipe
« Reply #13 on: January 31, 2014, 06:08:53 PM »
5 posts in a row...take it easy there cowboy!

Aristox

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Re: Melee Attack Hit Chance -- Next Wipe
« Reply #14 on: January 31, 2014, 07:14:47 PM »
I am interacting over here. Get back in your cage!