Author Topic: Conclave Test Complaints  (Read 2218 times)

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quatin

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Conclave Test Complaints
« on: January 03, 2018, 07:43:42 PM »
I don't understand the point of the conclave tests. It may teach newbies on how zone puzzles are constructed and a little bit on how to use a mage. However, it is far too complex and long to be "newbie friendly" and will more likely cause a true newbie to quit instead. I get how some "vets" enjoy solving puzzles, but why force everyone to do it? Not everyone likes to play thesaurus for hours on end. Most players learn zones by being led through them.

The test process is also extremely long with no "save" process. It takes me on average a good hour to figure out a test and it's chained in sets of 3. That's 3 hours of time to finish, with a good chance of dying in test 2 & 3, which causes you to start all over resulting in a 5 hour ordeal. On top of that, if you need to leave before completion, not only do you start all over from test 1, but I get banned for 24 hours? It also seems like you also get banned for 24-48 hours if you fail tests too many times as well. What's the purpose in that? Disincentive game play?

I know the real answer is to prevent people from suiciding until they get to a test they know, but instead of trying to stop this "loophole", you should think about why people are trying to avoid the tests in the first place. This is supposed to be a game. Games are supposed to be fun. If people are avoiding it, you probably shouldn't be forcing it down their throats.

Zozen

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Re: Conclave Test Complaints
« Reply #1 on: January 03, 2018, 11:01:30 PM »
And mages are the most powerful/hardest class to play... if you can't do the quests then you will have a hard time playing them at higher levels either solo or in groups... lots of other classes for new players to choose from to learn the game. Try a warrior/barb/scout, heck even druid/cleric/shaman if you want a caster and find a friend!

Good luck!

quatin

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Re: Conclave Test Complaints
« Reply #2 on: January 04, 2018, 06:27:09 AM »
And mages are the most powerful/hardest class to play... if you can't do the quests then you will have a hard time playing them at higher levels either solo or in groups... lots of other classes for new players to choose from to learn the game. Try a warrior/barb/scout, heck even druid/cleric/shaman if you want a caster and find a friend!

Good luck!

I'm not so sure the tests teach much about mage gameplay. Most of it is a thesaurus look up game or cycle through spells on object until you find the correct one.  It's not so much a teaching tool, but a word puzzle. If the purpose is to be a gateway to making mages, then it serves a purpose, but I dont understand why mages need one.

I already legened a char this wipe, but havent played mage because they were not relevant in group play when I last quit arctic. What bothers me the most about the tests is the ban timers. I can eventually figure out the tests, but it forces you to do it in a 5-6 hour marathon or over several days as you die/quit for a break and get hit with 24 hour ban timers.

Kam

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Re: Conclave Test Complaints
« Reply #3 on: January 04, 2018, 08:24:54 AM »
Thank you for sharing your complaints.

Perhaps you'd like to share your solutions for these perceived problems so that we could perhaps come to find some common ground between what we've done, what you want, and what we can agree is balanced.

Keywords that are silly and nonsensical don't appeal to me at all and I am more than happy to change them when they are brought to my attention. This doesn't mean that I'll always agree that they are unsolvable or esoteric but that I will at least have a look and consider making a change or addition to the keywords.

In the case of the cool-down timer for repeating the mage conclave tests, I suppose it is a bit long, I'll look into shortening it.

In the case of the keywords in the mage tests, I'd need specific examples but generally I find them to be a bit of a pain in the ass as well. Some additional keywords or clues could stand to make the process much more bearable. I would love if someone wanted to comb through their list of the quests/keywords and provide me with a list of suggested changes in that vein.

quatin

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Re: Conclave Test Complaints
« Reply #4 on: January 04, 2018, 07:57:16 PM »
There's 3 major changes I'd like to see to the test system itself.

1) Reduce the no entry timer
2) Having some sort of "save" system, so when you have to quit to take a break, you're not penalized into starting all over. It takes about 1 hour to figure out a test, therefore requiring 3 straight hours to complete. Since you are likely to die from test 2 &3 the first time, it could end up being a 5-6 hour marathon.
3) Change the gate system to allowed to take the tests at lvl 10, but can still progress the character without passing the test. Perhaps level lock at 20 instead of 10 or don't receive certain spells/skills until passing. In it's current state, you're forced to just quit the character until you go through the ordeal very early on.

There's not too much to complain about the KWs that appear in the conclave test that doesn't also apply to zone KWs as well. I like puzzles where you figure out what to do and not find synonyms of the word. For example in one conclave test: One clue says "The base is too dirty to see anything through". The solution is "clean/polish base". You figure out the action. However, later you get the clue "There's an outline of a door, perhaps if you get closer you can exit". You are already instructed of the action, so it's a word guessing game on synonyms of "get closer".

Lastly, I don't understand the point of the Conclave tests for mages. It seems to be mini-puzzles that teach players how to solve zone puzzles, but I don't understand why it would exist as a roadblock for mages. Wouldn't it be better served as some sort of quest system for all lowbie players? Perhaps make it a voluntary system with skill, spell or leveling gear rewards?
« Last Edit: January 04, 2018, 07:59:06 PM by quatin »

Willoe

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Re: Conclave Test Complaints
« Reply #5 on: January 04, 2018, 08:56:59 PM »
Quote
Lastly, I don't understand the point of the Conclave tests for mages. It seems to be mini-puzzles that teach players how to solve zone puzzles, but I don't understand why it would exist as a roadblock for mages. Wouldn't it be better served as some sort of quest system for all lowbie players? Perhaps make it a voluntary system with skill, spell or leveling gear rewards?

This is purely from the books if you've read Dragonlance at all. It's a test of their skill and wisdom, those die fail perish. I do think that having a quest system in place for all classes would be awesome however!


Willoe doesn't know how to quote posts. -Kam
« Last Edit: January 05, 2018, 12:33:46 PM by Kam »

Heo

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Re: Conclave Test Complaints
« Reply #6 on: January 05, 2018, 10:50:40 PM »
Haha, I still think I have mild PTSD from trying to figure out keywords when you're in that cabin or house and there's that knocking getting louder outside.  Bleh (I definitely died before I figured it out).
 

quatin

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Re: Conclave Test Complaints
« Reply #7 on: January 06, 2018, 09:16:39 AM »
This is purely from the books if you've read Dragonlance at all. It's a test of their skill and wisdom, those die fail perish. I do think that having a quest system in place for all classes would be awesome however!


Ok, that makes sense. My only real problem with it is the ban timers then. It's been 2 days since my last failure and I can't get in still?

Willoe

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Re: Conclave Test Complaints
« Reply #8 on: January 06, 2018, 11:38:23 AM »
I believe it has to be in game time spent. If you don't log your character after you fail the timer doesn't move.

quatin

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Re: Conclave Test Complaints
« Reply #9 on: January 06, 2018, 11:43:50 AM »
I believe it has to be in game time spent. If you don't log your character after you fail the timer doesn't move.

If that's true, do people just log on and idle script for 24 hours? You can't progress pass lvl 10 so you can't really play.

Hoyt

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Re: Conclave Test Complaints
« Reply #10 on: January 07, 2018, 09:23:02 AM »
I always just killed myself to avoid the re-entry timer, xp at level 10 is easy to over come faster than waiting 24 tics
coming out of those with 10 to 15 deaths isn't unusual for me.

quatin

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Re: Conclave Test Complaints
« Reply #11 on: January 08, 2018, 11:47:03 AM »
I always just killed myself to avoid the re-entry timer, xp at level 10 is easy to over come faster than waiting 24 tics
coming out of those with 10 to 15 deaths isn't unusual for me.

I got locked out from dying legitimately, not suicide. So there must've been a change to prevent skipping tests to suicide. Also it wasn't 24 tics, it was 24-48 real hours. Took me over a week to pass the conclave tests.

Kam

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Re: Conclave Test Complaints
« Reply #12 on: January 08, 2018, 07:28:00 PM »
January 08, 2018

   Justarius and the other mages of the Conclave have decided to
   reduce the waiting period between attempts to pass the Test of
   High Sorcery.

- Kam

quatin

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Re: Conclave Test Complaints
« Reply #13 on: January 08, 2018, 07:38:40 PM »
January 08, 2018

   Justarius and the other mages of the Conclave have decided to
   reduce the waiting period between attempts to pass the Test of
   High Sorcery.

- Kam

Awesome!

Terk

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Re: Conclave Test Complaints
« Reply #14 on: February 20, 2018, 12:37:49 PM »
One readily available option for making the tests easier is to make the hint option tell you exactly what to do.

It's probably long past time players had a reddit that has posts/discussions telling you how to do zones.