Author Topic: Losing Lily  (Read 3028 times)

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Shannow

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Losing Lily
« on: October 17, 2017, 02:35:08 PM »
Yeah this is a complaint. I'm bapting 41, I play this game for fun, I don't have time all day to play. I'm about to legend and due to some bad luck I lost my holy status on my DK.

Really? Resetting my inspire back to awful? From excellent? Plus knocking back some other random skills down a couple of levels? What for? So I can hate you?

Take ranks off my dragons, lose my spells. These things are a pain but I can accept. Having to spend all this time doing what is ALREADY THE LEAST FUN PART OF THE GAME, aka skills training, is shitty design.

Something needs to change overall with skills imho, but right now the penalty for Lily loss is simply too great.

Btw I went back and looked 3 years ago I posted about skills training taking too long and being anti fun, hasn't changed much.
« Last Edit: October 24, 2017, 02:08:22 AM by Kam »

oom

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Re: Losing Lily..Why does arctic hate fun?
« Reply #1 on: October 17, 2017, 08:14:23 PM »
An overall 50% nerf in training time would be great. If you are sitting fighting pointless mobs for the sole purpose of training a skill it really kills the fun. And they should just get rid of the need for impunity and faith in my opinion. The vast majority of players certainly don't enjoy it.

Master Mike

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Re: Losing Lily..Why does arctic hate fun?
« Reply #2 on: October 17, 2017, 10:43:12 PM »
I agree there will be no faith for dks status in my mud...

Shannow

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Re: Losing Lily..Why does arctic hate fun?
« Reply #3 on: October 18, 2017, 06:55:13 AM »
An overall 50% nerf in training time would be great. If you are sitting fighting pointless mobs for the sole purpose of training a skill it really kills the fun. And they should just get rid of the need for impunity and faith in my opinion. The vast majority of players certainly don't enjoy it.

I'm not even arguing for removal of faith, just make the punishment less onerous. I have zero desire to play right now because of this loss. Plus HELLO WIZ TEAM can you please fix the issue with my holy spells. kthx.

A 50% nerf in training time is too simplistic. Skills are there for a reason, to keep the path to legend still a decent goal. However I think the design approach needs to be 'can we make it more fun'. Yes I'd look at removing skills that serve no decent purpose in general zoning or gameplay...things like 'plant' and 'disarm' (not enuf wielding mobs, doesn't work enuf and doesn't change dam enuf to matter) and 'mend' (doesn't work on enough items to be worthwhile). Maybe more feedback on our progress to keep us going (like an xp level for skills instead of random enlighten messages).

oom

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Re: Losing Lily..Why does arctic hate fun?
« Reply #4 on: October 18, 2017, 02:33:06 PM »
An overall 50% nerf in training time would be great. If you are sitting fighting pointless mobs for the sole purpose of training a skill it really kills the fun. And they should just get rid of the need for impunity and faith in my opinion. The vast majority of players certainly don't enjoy it.

I'm not even arguing for removal of faith, just make the punishment less onerous. I have zero desire to play right now because of this loss. Plus HELLO WIZ TEAM can you please fix the issue with my holy spells. kthx.

A 50% nerf in training time is too simplistic. Skills are there for a reason, to keep the path to legend still a decent goal. However I think the design approach needs to be 'can we make it more fun'. Yes I'd look at removing skills that serve no decent purpose in general zoning or gameplay...things like 'plant' and 'disarm' (not enuf wielding mobs, doesn't work enuf and doesn't change dam enuf to matter) and 'mend' (doesn't work on enough items to be worthwhile). Maybe more feedback on our progress to keep us going (like an xp level for skills instead of random enlighten messages).

I mean I don't know what changed after I got legend or when the skill changed started but if the number of hours I spent training banish and field medic by myself or really with a poor druid friend was cut in half.. I don't think it would be a bad thing.

If a dk or warrior spends only 2 nights alone skilling instead of 3 or 4 I don't find that to be a bad thing either. I just feel like all the skills required for legend should be things that you could naturally get to superb through zoning to 20RP.

I realize this isn't really possible for things like disable but if we removed the wild swings of character rolling because nobody has time for that then why do we have to spend hours upon hours to train skills?

Maybe there is a significant dropoff in playtime after legend or something? To me it seems like legend is when you can finally play the game, but I'm sure opinions differ.

Anyway, not complaining just tossing out my thoughts.

reed23

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Re: Losing Lily..Why does arctic hate fun?
« Reply #5 on: October 18, 2017, 04:19:45 PM »
Common sense changes - the changes that will never be made.  Stop guys, just stop.  Grind that inspire back up bro, you obviously have the time to do it being 41 with several real-life responsibilities.

el conquistador

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Re: Losing Lily..Why does arctic hate fun?
« Reply #6 on: October 19, 2017, 01:19:01 AM »
losing faith is pretty bad.  i never play paladin or dk just because i know im going to mess it up eventually.

reed23

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Re: Losing Lily..Why does arctic hate fun?
« Reply #7 on: October 19, 2017, 11:30:20 AM »
Faith is part of the game and i don't believe it should be removed.  But i think DKs that lose faith shouldn't lose any spells, and could have inspire reduced by maybe 2 or so skill levels.  Going to bad/awful is really demoralizing for a casual player.

Kam

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Re: Losing Lily..Why does arctic hate fun?
« Reply #8 on: October 20, 2017, 01:15:47 AM »
The penalties for losing status are hard coded as far as I am aware. I am looking into having someone take a nerf bat down that road as I agree that the effects are pretty devastating and need to be relaxed in a lot of ways.
The side issue here is that there are sometimes mobs in the game that are holy and not terribly obvious that they would be so. I don't know what you lost status on but I think it's worth taking a look through holy mobs to see what's out there and maybe if those could be modified a bit.
Removing faith and status loss altogether isn't really something I'm into. Faith in particular because I'm actually a fan of the system. Early in its implementation there were discussions about expanding its field throughout all classes that was eventually decided against, but a good deal of interest remained in making it a part of the DK class which I was behind and hope we can eventually implement one day.

As far as skill training is concerned we made the first major changes to skill training that have been done in a very long time, particularly regarding the way that it works. As with most things in Arctic throughout its history, these are a work that is ever in progress. More recently we've worked on easing up the cool down timers and getting some skills to train faster/easier or have just no cool down at all. These changes, I believe, are already done and just waiting to be merged into the game.
As I've mentioned before it's very difficult for us to get code changes implemented because it is not only the players who have grown up and acquired themselves several real-life responsibilities, much to their own chagrin in many cases.
Banish and field medic are horrible, I can readily agree. Especially banish because I've been that poor sap of a druid helping people train it more than few times over the years.

Shannow for any character specific issues you're having feel free to speak to me online when you see me or shoot me a PM here on the forums with some more info so that I can take a look for you.

oom

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Re: Losing Lily..Why does arctic hate fun?
« Reply #9 on: October 20, 2017, 09:54:10 AM »
Thanks for responding with an update.

Shannow

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Re: Losing Lily..Why does arctic hate fun?
« Reply #10 on: October 20, 2017, 07:23:00 PM »
Kam I appreciate the reply. I hope you folks get a chance to take a look.

Thankfully your dragon doesn't lose ranks. My characters problems were solved by running lily quest for a second time. Thanks to Tour who chatted with me about it.

I think spell loss and dropping inspire a level or two would be more appropriate. Painful but not soul-crushing. :D

I'm not so worried about the holy stuff. It was a high priestess of Takhisis, pretty obvious it was holy :D :D :D ..dont play from work on a web browser with no triggers boys and girls..:D

Kadaj

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Re: Losing Lily..Why does arctic hate fun?
« Reply #11 on: October 23, 2017, 06:00:19 AM »
An easy...ish? fix for what Kam said would perhaps show an aura. (black aura) (holy aura) and let DK's auto have that aura? What do I know, I just play mages and thieves anyway.

skeetulrich

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Re: Losing Lily
« Reply #12 on: October 26, 2017, 08:47:49 AM »
Lost status one or two enlightens in inspire from superb earlier this wipe in Shoal. Feelsbadman.

It took me a few days to go around and get the skills/spells back to where they needed to be, so I am in support of this thread! Ain't nobody got time for that.

gnua

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Re: Losing Lily..Why does arctic hate fun?
« Reply #13 on: October 28, 2017, 08:26:05 PM »
The penalties for losing status are hard coded as far as I am aware. I am looking into having someone take a nerf bat down that road as I agree that the effects are pretty devastating and need to be relaxed in a lot of ways.

nice to hear that the dk status nerf bat is being looked into.  every wipe it happens to a clannie and i decide to avoid playing that guild for exactly that reason.

gnua

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Re: Losing Lily
« Reply #14 on: October 29, 2017, 07:48:30 PM »
I bought detect holy ring rank to see if i could know ahead of time if paladins/dks needed to protect themselves before a fight.  And nothing seems to show with any kind of "holy" aura.  this gives 3 possibilities and was wondering if i could get any clarity from the immortals:
1.  nothing i have looked at is holy (dragons and priests of both good and evil alignments)
2.  nothing evil is holy (dk lose status on unholy things and there is no ring rank for that)
3.  the ring rank is bugged