Author Topic: Reasons why I probably won't ever really come back to Arctic  (Read 849 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

gruevy

  • Newbie
  • Posts: 4
I've been reading the forums quite a bit lately and I've seen a lot of talk about how RISE is driving all the players away. They might be part of it, but they're only driving away players at a certain level. I have never played at that level, and there's an enormous wall between me and that level, and that's part of why I doubt I'll play much.

I played a ton back in the 200+ players at a time days when I was a teenager (35 now), and for long spurts periodically over the years since then. I haven't made a good go of it for something like, what, 6-7 years now? I played for 6-8 months in my last 'go', and was away for a couple years before that. Every so often I'll come read the forums and see what's new. Then I think hard about what it really means to play Arctic, and decide against it. Sometimes I'll peck around mudconnect.com for another mud to play, but nothing else quite hits the spot. It's Arctic or nothing, and that usually just means nothing.

Fixing some or any of these might mean ruining the game for the few core players who are still playing, and kill the mud for good. It might mean changing the game into something else completely. It might mean catering to a type of player you don't want. It might mean any number of things. I'm not advocating making any changes to fix any of this. I'm just speaking for myself, and, I imagine, a big group of people who are also not playing for similar reasons. And after reading my complaints, maybe you'll come to the conclusion that you don't really want me as a player (or a type of player) anyway. It's all good. I just used to love Arctic when I was really into it, so here's my $0.02.


1 - This one has been resolved: Rolling. This used to be a bitch. I guess now you can only get +1/-1 from a baseline so why bother, though? Good change. This is the only item on the list, as far as I know, that has been fixed.

2 - Complete opacity of item and character stats. Just sit and think for a minute about the ridiculous database you have assembled in your heads of item locations and stats, and think for a minute what it's like to be a new player who doesn't have that. You're all bitching about PK at legendary rank of limdam limit-1 EQ, but imagine being a total newb and having to climb that mountain for the first time. I remember precisely jack and shit about what items have what stats. I can barely remember what makes decent rolling gear in Balifor, and that's about it. I find a sword in a shop. I wonder if it's good. I pay 55 coins for the privilege of learning what its dice are. Oh shit, now I have to lore it. Oh shit, that lore told me nothing because I don't know what those codes mean. I still don't know how it stacks up because I don't know any of the meta. Is 3d4 still a good LB? In short, I picture myself trying to figure out how to Paladin or DK and rebuild this massive mental database of 8800 items ranging from consumables to armor and weapons, and none of it follows a useful naming convention of any kind, and all the tedium and frustration that requires and I'm just like... nah. And don't get me started on all the hidden stats like 'learn' that I barely know a thing about because they're super duper secret.

2a - Nolore. No, no, no, no, no. Same with partial lore only. Screw everything about this. I swear to god, every nolore item I remember finding turned out to have a really cool description and be utterly useless. That may be funny to the zone designer, but there's nothing fun about that for a player.

3 - Norent gear. F everything about this. I have a life now. I have a job. I can't commit to 8 hour play sessions on a regular basis to go pop gear to go pop other gear so I can go pop gear. I've always hated norent gear. That flag needs to go away. Most of it isn't even that OP, like it'll just cast fly or waterbreathing or something. What I especially hated about this is that as a primarily solo player over the years, most of the stuff I found that I thought, oh wow this is cool! was norent.

4 - Keyword shenanigans. Your thesaurus-required policy for keywords is bullshit. I don't care how clever you think you're being, Mr Zone Designer, or how 'hard' you want the puzzle in the zone to be. If I can't progress in a zone because I tried to 'push box' whereas I needed to 'propel box' you're just being a dick. It seems that 90% of the keywords in Arctic are like this. Last wipe, I made a mage thinking I could solo a bit without gear and couldn't get past the tower of wayreth. I spent several hours over two days and quit when I deleveled. Congrats on the tower, btw. I know you're catering to pros who wanted a fresh challenge. The writing was evocative and creative. The puzzles were puzzling and bullshit, and I deleted my char and didn't come back. I know I could have skipped it, but it's the principle of the thing. I never did find out what the reward would have been.

5 - Death penalties. I used to love death penalties in Arctic. It used to be one of my favorite things. The last time I played (not the mage, the paladin 6-7 yrs ago), however, I remember dying several times in a row and losing not only all my hard-won loot, but um... a couple ranks? I don't remember. I was grouping a lot at that point, and it really sucked. I spent forever trying to get back to where I was before. I remember getting back into a group when I was aaaalmost there, and then I died two more times. I remember looking at the several dozen million xp I needed, and my big fat empty bank account, and just not logging back on. I just don't have time for that anymore. I can't devote a month to catching back up to where I was. I can't devote a month to popping gear I used to have, or to re-grinding levels or ranks I already did. Frankly, I'm just not sure I want to play a game where I can lose all my gear or that much xp. Period.

6 - Travel is a pain in the ass unless you're a wizard. It has always been. You all know your way around, and it also has PK implications, but I don't care. I've forgotten all the roads, and I'm not interested in getting lost between Tarsis and Solace 11 times in a row. I just don't want to spend the time it takes to travel from major city to major city. Last wipe I spent like 3 hours trying to get to Solace before someone told me who to teleport to. I know there are a couple teleporters hidden in zones and someone could probably remind me where they are, but still, I'm not sure I really want to deal with this again. I'm not as solid on hating this aspect of it, however. I could probably cope.

7 - Too much of the cool gear a person can solo got removed a very long time ago. I remember a time when you could solo stuff like hard bash shields. I used to solo force bolt on my mages, but they tell me that's impossible now. From what I remember, the worst of the damage happened under Cale's reign, but the mud has been moving away from solo to group play, and specifically high-level, rank-oriented group play for a long time now. It's almost like there isn't a game before legendary anymore, and certainly not one for solo play except for rank grinding.

8 - Item decay. If, by some miracle, I manage to get my hands on a piece of gear that I want to keep, knowing that it's going to just disappear in rent someday is disheartening. I probably have no idea where it loads in the first place, and if I do, I don't want to have to go kill that mob 11 times and retread that ground for the sole purpose and getting back to where I was before. That sucks. I just don't want to spend my time on that.

9 - Limit gear. I mean gear that only 1 or 2 people can have. Remember when I said that RISE is only driving off the top tier of players, and that I'll never be at that tier so it doesn't affect me? That's only partially true. I know that I will never, ever, ever touch a single piece of truly epic gear. I will probably never pop an epic spell. I doubt I will ever see the toughest mobs or the toughest zones. Why? Because the top tier of play is like king of the hill--there's only so much room up there, and it's already occupied. I don't have 20 years of encyclopedic mud knowledge to even THINK about trying to find a guild to do that stuff. So it's closed to me, effectively forever. And even if I did, I don't have the time to invest to get there. Because lots of the gear you need is really expensive to rent (or norent), requiring several hours each day to keep up. It's also really low load percentage, which makes it FREAKING HARD for someone like me to learn where stuff drops. It's not even just that it takes lots of time--it takes lots of consistent time, every single day, forever. And I can't do that. I might only have an hour or two a week some weeks.

I'd like to do a lot of solo exploration and explore Arctic's huge and interesting variety of zones, but I'm discouraged because my perception is that there's not a whole lot left for a solo player to find anymore. And what I will find will likely be norent, and what isn't norent will probably be nolore and I'll find out later it's useless. Eventually I'll get some ranks and start grouping but I'll never see the top tier of play because, like I said, King of the Hill, and I stand no chance of being King. All that crap you guys argue about in these forums (dragon orbs, huma's shield)? I've never seen any of that, and I doubt I ever will. And if I do try and get some, I'm going to get PK'd immediately and lose hours and hours of play that are becoming increasingly expensive as I get older and just generally have more shit going on.

There's not a whole lot for solo players to find anymore, not like there used to be. And even if there was, information on it is annoying to get, and I can't hold on to it because I can't commit to 4-8 hours per day, every single day. That's kind of the angle I'm coming at it from. I hope some of this has been informative.

blackmagus

  • Zoner
  • **
  • Posts: 100
Re: Reasons why I probably won't ever really come back to Arctic
« Reply #1 on: July 14, 2017, 04:35:50 PM »
2 - Complete opacity of item and character stats. Just sit and think for a minute about the ridiculous database you have assembled in your heads of item locations and stats, and think for a minute what it's like to be a new player who doesn't have that. You're all bitching about PK at legendary rank of limdam limit-1 EQ, but imagine being a total newb and having to climb that mountain for the first time. I remember precisely jack and shit about what items have what stats. I can barely remember what makes decent rolling gear in Balifor, and that's about it. I find a sword in a shop. I wonder if it's good. I pay 55 coins for the privilege of learning what its dice are. Oh shit, now I have to lore it. Oh shit, that lore told me nothing because I don't know what those codes mean. I still don't know how it stacks up because I don't know any of the meta. Is 3d4 still a good LB? In short, I picture myself trying to figure out how to Paladin or DK and rebuild this massive mental database of 8800 items ranging from consumables to armor and weapons, and none of it follows a useful naming convention of any kind, and all the tedium and frustration that requires and I'm just like... nah. And don't get me started on all the hidden stats like 'learn' that I barely know a thing about because they're super duper secret.

Can't begin to say how much I agree with this statement. We have a database of hundreds, perhaps thousands of items and of those your average player will see a tenth in their average gaming lifetime. What is the point of this secrecy if only Clan A or Individual Z is aware the item exists or it's limit? Our playerbase has shrank to a shadow of what it formerly was and perhaps a good way of getting things rolling again is ending the transparency for all items, including no_lore.

Plenty of MUDS give an extended "STAT" command which shows not only the object name, but it's flags, base damage and it's bonuses. Often time the zone loading location and the decay timer is also available. Would it be game breaking to allow a player to know what they have or perhaps what's available? I think not.

Quote from: gruevy
7 - Too much of the cool gear a person can solo got removed a very long time ago. I remember a time when you could solo stuff like hard bash shields. I used to solo force bolt on my mages, but they tell me that's impossible now. From what I remember, the worst of the damage happened under Cale's reign, but the mud has been moving away from solo to group play, and specifically high-level, rank-oriented group play for a long time now. It's almost like there isn't a game before legendary anymore, and certainly not one for solo play except for rank grinding.

This spell, as well as a number of low level and very useful spells are still very much soloable from level 13 and above. However, the load percentage has dropped considerably. Perhaps with the PK changes on the books we'll see the lower tier spells become far more available again.

kholos

  • Newbie
  • Posts: 46
Re: Reasons why I probably won't ever really come back to Arctic
« Reply #2 on: July 15, 2017, 12:35:44 AM »
Most of your posts prove that you are completely clueless. Which isn't entirely your fault and brings up a really good point. Arctic is hard, and too hard for any newcomers.

I fully support more transparency in game mechanics.
I fully support any increase in load rates/limits.
I fully support more soloable zones (perhaps with a level cap so they can't be steamrolled by higher levels).

A few notes:
Zone keywords do depend on the creator, but each keyword has to be added manually. It's easy to forget to add shove to the push/lean/slide box.

Norent gear, by and large, is designed as items to complete a zone. Another use could be when a mob requires an item to function correctly, but you don't want it to be an actual usable item. This could be handled better in the creation of the zone, but I think the coding has improved and Arctic still has old zones.

gruevy

  • Newbie
  • Posts: 4
Re: Reasons why I probably won't ever really come back to Arctic
« Reply #3 on: July 15, 2017, 10:08:24 AM »
Quote from: blackmagus
This spell, as well as a number of low level and very useful spells are still very much soloable from level 13 and above. However, the load percentage has dropped considerably. Perhaps with the PK changes on the books we'll see the lower tier spells become far more available again.

I honestly only know what I was told last time I tried. I remember that a couple wipes ago, Wynn wasn't dropping the book anymore and someone told me it got removed, and then last wipe when I made a new mage someone told me it was basically impossible now. I took them at their word.

Quote from: kholos
Most of your posts prove that you are completely clueless.

Definitely. Back in the early days when I used to play seriously, hitting level 30 was a real accomplishment. There was serious PVP happening at level 10. You'd get PK'd in Orcus' Temple. I only barely edged into the upper tiers of play before life changed and I had to set it aside. Each time I came back, I found that more and more had changed, fewer people were playing, and more of the stuff I knew about had been nerfed or removed. In my last serious attempt 6-7 years ago, people were complaining then about how bad the drop percentage was, and it sounds like the problem has just gotten worse, maybe? I dunno. And not only do things change, but I forget stuff. It's been years, my dude.

One example of an item I'm thinking of. There was a hardbash shield in Gully Dwarves near Palanthas that you could easily solo as a thief. I vaguely remember something that went like this: they put guards in front of it you couldn't sneak past, then they locked the door, then they made it norent. I have no idea what happened since then. That was just one example, and someone can probably correct me on the details. But I also remember on my paladin finding stuff like +1 str +1 con armor that was norent (don't remember where). That, in conjunction with people telling me last wipe that all the soloable mage books got removed, gave me the impression there's no solo game anymore.

If someone could make a case for the solo game and justify my chances at ever seeing end game content, I'd love to be persuaded back to playing this game. All my gripes remain, but I'm open to arguments. :)
« Last Edit: July 15, 2017, 10:21:34 AM by gruevy »

oom

  • Fodder
  • *
  • Posts: 91
Re: Reasons why I probably won't ever really come back to Arctic
« Reply #4 on: July 15, 2017, 12:21:24 PM »
Quote from: blackmagus
This spell, as well as a number of low level and very useful spells are still very much soloable from level 13 and above. However, the load percentage has dropped considerably. Perhaps with the PK changes on the books we'll see the lower tier spells become far more available again.

I honestly only know what I was told last time I tried. I remember that a couple wipes ago, Wynn wasn't dropping the book anymore and someone told me it got removed, and then last wipe when I made a new mage someone told me it was basically impossible now. I took them at their word.

Quote from: kholos
Most of your posts prove that you are completely clueless.

Definitely. Back in the early days when I used to play seriously, hitting level 30 was a real accomplishment. There was serious PVP happening at level 10. You'd get PK'd in Orcus' Temple. I only barely edged into the upper tiers of play before life changed and I had to set it aside. Each time I came back, I found that more and more had changed, fewer people were playing, and more of the stuff I knew about had been nerfed or removed. In my last serious attempt 6-7 years ago, people were complaining then about how bad the drop percentage was, and it sounds like the problem has just gotten worse, maybe? I dunno. And not only do things change, but I forget stuff. It's been years, my dude.

One example of an item I'm thinking of. There was a hardbash shield in Gully Dwarves near Palanthas that you could easily solo as a thief. I vaguely remember something that went like this: they put guards in front of it you couldn't sneak past, then they locked the door, then they made it norent. I have no idea what happened since then. That was just one example, and someone can probably correct me on the details. But I also remember on my paladin finding stuff like +1 str +1 con armor that was norent (don't remember where). That, in conjunction with people telling me last wipe that all the soloable mage books got removed, gave me the impression there's no solo game anymore.

If someone could make a case for the solo game and justify my chances at ever seeing end game content, I'd love to be persuaded back to playing this game. All my gripes remain, but I'm open to arguments. :)

I think you got bad info. This game is still just as solo friendly as ever in my opinion. Granted, it's possible I have just amassed enough pointless info that I know how to solo some things. Honestly at this point in arctic it's super safe to solo too(unless those mean ex-core guys loot your corpse). Myth or Rise help people a lot with lowbie quests and such and the chance of getting pk'd is pretty much non-existent, even before the recent change.

If you are frustrated because of impossible keywords that only a few know because they were told by an imm or can just look at the zone boards and then tell their buddies... well I totally get you there. Some people freely give help(Myth and sometimes RISE) other people will swear and you for asking for a KW.

kholos

  • Newbie
  • Posts: 46
Re: Reasons why I probably won't ever really come back to Arctic
« Reply #5 on: July 15, 2017, 08:38:06 PM »
Yes only Myth and sometimes RISE give help...

I have typically only ever shared what I consider high level info with 1-3 people, who have recipricated (probably less so). Knowledge is power, always will be. That being said, I have been accused of sharing too much. I'm not sure people appreciate how long it takes to acquire zone knowledge. There have been zones that I worked on for years before solving. Typically it's months of repetitive spamming to learn a zone, and even then you miss a few things. It's hard to invest so much time and effort into a zone and then give the kw away. It spreads like fire when you do that. I have, on rare occasion, traded zone info for something I really get stuck on.

Long story short, it's sometimes a collective effort and I won't really share info unless it has become common knowledge or you were there to help me explore. If you don't have the time to put in 8hours a day every day until you want to slit your wrists, you shouldn't get to know what I know. Granted, some quests/zones are incredibly complex and mind numbing, which I don't agree with. There should always be some way to solve something, even if it isn't obvious.

I guess another approach is to ask for Shoal keywords for peace.

eddiex

  • Zoner
  • **
  • Posts: 172
Re: Reasons why I probably won't ever really come back to Arctic
« Reply #6 on: July 15, 2017, 09:19:29 PM »
If you don't have the time to put in 8hours a day every day until you want to slit your wrists, you shouldn't get to know what I know.

So it's about exclusivity and earning it?

If you don't have the time to put in 8hours a day every day until you want to slit your wrists, you shouldn't get to have what we want.

That seems like a pretty reasonable statement in a pk-mud.





oom

  • Fodder
  • *
  • Posts: 91
Re: Reasons why I probably won't ever really come back to Arctic
« Reply #7 on: July 16, 2017, 10:06:17 AM »
If you don't have the time to put in 8hours a day every day until you want to slit your wrists, you shouldn't get to know what I know.

So it's about exclusivity and earning it?

If you don't have the time to put in 8hours a day every day until you want to slit your wrists, you shouldn't get to have what we want.

That seems like a pretty reasonable statement in a pk-mud.
Isn't this the same guy who listed 8 hours a day play time as one of rises constant abuses?  Lol :)

kholos

  • Newbie
  • Posts: 46
Re: Reasons why I probably won't ever really come back to Arctic
« Reply #8 on: July 16, 2017, 07:08:11 PM »
Eddiex: Glad we agree.

Oom: Uhh, what?

Oligo

  • Immortal
  • Fodder
  • *
  • Posts: 80
  • Favorite Zone: Dunmir
Re: Reasons why I probably won't ever really come back to Arctic
« Reply #9 on: July 24, 2017, 08:24:17 AM »
2 - Complete opacity of item and character stats. Just sit and think for a minute about the ridiculous database you have assembled in your heads of item locations and stats, and think for a minute what it's like to be a new player who doesn't have that. You're all bitching about PK at legendary rank of limdam limit-1 EQ, but imagine being a total newb and having to climb that mountain for the first time. I remember precisely jack and shit about what items have what stats. I can barely remember what makes decent rolling gear in Balifor, and that's about it. I find a sword in a shop. I wonder if it's good. I pay 55 coins for the privilege of learning what its dice are. Oh shit, now I have to lore it. Oh shit, that lore told me nothing because I don't know what those codes mean. I still don't know how it stacks up because I don't know any of the meta. Is 3d4 still a good LB? In short, I picture myself trying to figure out how to Paladin or DK and rebuild this massive mental database of 8800 items ranging from consumables to armor and weapons, and none of it follows a useful naming convention of any kind, and all the tedium and frustration that requires and I'm just like... nah. And don't get me started on all the hidden stats like 'learn' that I barely know a thing about because they're super duper secret.

You may want to try Lorebot, it's an easy to use lore database.
Currently it houses 4,815 lores accumulated since 2003.
Commands are as simple as

Code: [Select]
!stat bronze.shield
Lorebot link: https://discord.gg/vNuGEpA
« Last Edit: July 24, 2017, 08:26:07 AM by Oligo »