Author Topic: The Grind  (Read 1214 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Valenore

  • Newbie
  • Posts: 25
Re: The Grind
« Reply #15 on: July 12, 2017, 07:18:19 PM »
Actually, it is more like:

Rise
- legendary after a week
-which allows them to load all high end eq and spells by week 2 or 3.
-Makes them untouchable.

people with lots of playing time.
- legendary after 2-3 weeks
-which allows them to get decent eq and most spells
- since they are late to legendary they get pushed around by the people that got it 2 or 3 weeks before them.

casuals
-the ones who know enough realize there isn't much reason to push the first month of the wipe because they aren't loading anything anyway.  Might as well wait until stuff starts to decay and hope you luck up and pop decent items (pretty much no hope of your top tier items anyway). 
-the ones that legend take 1-2 months (especially if you play a caster and have to grind spell loads)
-which allows them to get decent eq and most spells
-since they are really late to legendary they might can get decent gear later in the wipe when some of the hardcore players have quit or luck up and pop a decay that they won't get killed for.  If something to adverse happens along the grind (DT, targeted by a clan, etc) they will probably quit.


« Last Edit: July 12, 2017, 07:22:12 PM by Valenore »

zodiak21

  • Newbie
  • Posts: 7
Re: The Grind
« Reply #16 on: July 13, 2017, 07:33:17 AM »
Why not just remove limits....bring pk back that way if u know a load u can just pop it...if u dont u pk for it just like arctic intended. The pbase no longer needs limit gear

octan

  • Fodder
  • *
  • Posts: 53
Re: The Grind
« Reply #17 on: July 13, 2017, 11:21:38 AM »
Why not just remove limits....bring pk back that way if u know a load u can just pop it...if u dont u pk for it just like arctic intended. The pbase no longer needs limit gear

Hmm... there might jsut be enough hate in this playerbase that limited eq isn't all that important for pk anymore :D hahahaha

kielmobile

  • Newbie
  • Posts: 16
Re: The Grind
« Reply #18 on: July 13, 2017, 01:32:24 PM »
fear is the path to the dark side. fear leads to anger... anger leads to hate... hate leads to suffering...

xellos

  • Fodder
  • *
  • Posts: 97
Re: The Grind
« Reply #19 on: July 14, 2017, 03:55:09 PM »
Im pretty sure, Myth got a healer to legend before Rise this wipe

Jorake

  • Zoner
  • **
  • Posts: 246
Re: The Grind
« Reply #20 on: July 14, 2017, 05:15:18 PM »
You think so? Pazzar was our first and only legend healer atm. Think he legended like .. 10 days ago? or so.

Cleric spells are so random now that its stupid as shit.

LEAVE CLERIC BOOKS ALONE KAM!

el conquistador

  • Newbie
  • Posts: 40
Re: The Grind
« Reply #21 on: July 22, 2017, 12:31:46 PM »
I think Bryton does have a point.  all the changes made to combat trash characters definitely made leveling and dying more painful. 

12 years ago if you were getting hunted it wasn't so devastating.  you could roll a new character and be back to high level in a couple of days.  now with ranks and xp the way they are, losing a character is a horrible, possibly wipe-ending event.

back then you could also roll a new character and hide among the large numbers of neutral and unknown players.  these days a clan like rise probably has a pretty good idea who almost every single character in the game is.  if you are someone they want to kill they are going to find you without too much trouble.

I also agree that ranks/legendary were probably bad for the game in a number of ways.  especially in how much they extend the gap between the best players with the most free time, and more casual players. 

but I would hate to see ranks/legendary go.  they are an amazing edition to the game for people who only play pve. 

tough problems!


Rinad

  • Immortal
  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 40
  • Favorite Zone: Deep Mines
Re: The Grind
« Reply #22 on: July 23, 2017, 04:07:11 PM »
Bryton's got a great point.  Here's my .02 on this.

1.  In the past, I've wasted months of my life grinding day in and day out and I had like 5 legend characters last wipe.  My wife hated me playing for hours on end.
I had decent/limited equipment and ran most of the high-end content.  After spending a week or more on skilling and nothing else (lore, mend, etc), I still wasn't legend.  I started a thread and next thing skills got revamped.   It was a good change for the most part.  However, Bryton's right about certain skills taking way too long and the ones that are somewhat pointless otherwise.   Note- I wasn't working a lot and had endless time to play, so it wasn't a big deal to grind out the exp/ranks/etc.

2.  This wipe I am lucky if I get a few hours a week to play or on weekends.   With the 8 man groups and just lack of time to play, I'm still level 26 and slowly gaining.  I get left out of groups for other higher level chars/legends, which once you hit a certain point, soloing is not as fun and I log to play in groups with my friends and with the limited free time I get, if there is no room, I then usually log out and go do something else with my time. I notice if others are doing the same it lessens the playerbase considerably. 

3. Spamming the same 4-6 zones for a cleric/mage/druid/shaman spell takes away a lot of my desire to play.  I want to learn new stuff, but we're always chasing the same repops/spell hunting and frankly, I get bored as hell running dko/tot/storms/mom etc over 100x each wipe.  Only to do it again when someone legends and makes a new char, which leads to my next rant.

4. Soon as people legend, due to the time it takes to get there and the fact that legend races rule over most other races (except I feel casters don't get as much love, but that's another discussion), most either retire their chars and make a new one which starts the process over or they quit.   Then next thing you have is one guy with 3-4 stacked chars, since he has unlimited time on his hands and as a result, the slow guy (ie the one with less time to play) isn't geared at all.  It makes playing here less fun and I'm sure others as well get bored to the point where they quit 2-3 weeks in or take a few months break. 

So my suggestions to fix this: 
1.  Make the experience tables a tad smaller or fix some of the zones to be more balanced in ranks and exp.  Example: Deep Mines vs Tantallon.  Deep mines has way more ranks/exp per mob for the difficulty versus that of Tantallon.  Sorinthalas is another one that needs some rank love.     

2.  Make ranks refresh more often or make more mobs rank.   Fix the load rates on books so we don't have to run the same damn zones over and over to the point where I hate them and log at the mention of running them.   

3.  Keep the load rates the same but make the rent decay/decay timers less. So instead of 1000 tics make it 300 tics to decay or if the item is deep rented make it decay faster. This gives the smaller clans/players an actual chance to pop elite/limited items.  Don't keep the timers on the gear the same, that way elite gear won't all decay exactly a month in and then it makes it harder for a person to only log when he knows all his gear will be decayed at the same time.   Keeping it in rent and not being used in the game.  Part of the allure is being able to see the gear in use and not deep rented.

4. Skills have been fixed once, but again I feel most classes need certain skills revamped anyway, yet again another topic to be discussed and I'm open for others opinions and ideas on how to improve this.

That's all I got for now.  I hope I didn't ramble too much. Maybe someone else can chime in with some other reasonable suggestions.

Andy       

Dagda

  • Newbie
  • Posts: 44
Re: The Grind
« Reply #23 on: July 24, 2017, 07:04:59 AM »
Those are all great points Andy. I hope that this is taken into consideration, legend is great but the grind is too much for casual players - and as such casual players get left out of experiencing content. Frankly, legend should involve a quest for each class that requires going to certain zones and beating them - if you want them to have all of the skills superbed, then limit the grind for the annoying skills or eliminate those annoying skills from legend requirements.

Homard

  • Newbie
  • Posts: 8
Re: The Grind
« Reply #24 on: July 24, 2017, 08:02:47 AM »
I've been casually playing on and off since the beginning.  I only played one wipe with a 'major' clan and I enjoyed it.  One thing that struck me when I started going into more 'elite' zones with a big clan was how little gear popped.  I always thought the lack of gear was just because I was slumming around in common casual zones.  I haven't played beyond level 15-20 the last few wipes because I don't have the time for the upper level grind.

My biggest frustration in this game has always been the knowledge that at one point, the guy I just spent a week figuring out how to get to and kill probably has a whole lot of interesting gear but I'll never see any of it because it's all rented away to keep anyone else from using it.  PK was never my thing, but I did my best to defend myself and I think PK belongs in the game and adds significantly to the atmosphere.  It amazes me how a few on the mud have the mentality of 4 year old preschool bullies though.

  I would like to see all items go no limit with smaller load percentages.  Make them decay quicker based on eliteness.  I'd also like to see all items a little more abundant.  Why not clan wars with more elite items in play?  People will game them and fight when they know it isn't going to cost them weeks to get it all back to fight again.  You might even get 3 or 4 clans geared in a wipe for more warring.  Everyone fights over the shinies so why not give the crowd what they want.  Worst case scenario is you go back to the way it's always been (incredibly gear restricted with everything deep rented) on the next wipe.  Best case is people have fun (fun makes new players stay) and stick around and create mayhem.

  Finally, some sort of a "fuel tank" for items could solve deep renting.  Items need to actively be getting rank xp to prevent decay.  If they're not actively played, they quickly go kaput.  Deep rent is the bane of all casuals, which a lot of us 30-40 year olds are now, and prevents a lot of casuals from becoming more hardcore.

  Thanks to the mud staff for keeping the game going since my early days in '93.  I hope Arctic can keep weathering the storm.

Rus

  • Newbie
  • Posts: 4
Re: The Grind
« Reply #25 on: July 25, 2017, 02:21:40 AM »
some sort of a "fuel tank" for items could solve deep renting.  Items need to actively be getting rank xp to prevent decay.  If they're not actively played, they quickly go kaput.  Deep rent is the bane of all casuals.

for me its no doubts best idea. so damn great and solving so many issues...

Dagda

  • Newbie
  • Posts: 44
Re: The Grind
« Reply #26 on: July 25, 2017, 02:43:20 PM »
some sort of a "fuel tank" for items could solve deep renting.  Items need to actively be getting rank xp to prevent decay.  If they're not actively played, they quickly go kaput.  Deep rent is the bane of all casuals.

for me its no doubts best idea. so damn great and solving so many issues...

+1, best idea yet.

blackmagus

  • Fodder
  • *
  • Posts: 94
Re: The Grind
« Reply #27 on: July 25, 2017, 09:14:18 PM »
Isn't that the same as active decay during rent, which happens anyways? Say someone needs to take a leave of absence for family, medical, military, insanity.. etc., what  do they have to come back to if everything  they had fast-decayed while they were rented?

Homard

  • Newbie
  • Posts: 8
Re: The Grind
« Reply #28 on: July 25, 2017, 09:46:05 PM »
  Admittedly this suggestion swings far to the opposite way of current thinking.  If you have to take time away from the game. you have to go collect your shinies again.  Why do we as a mud population have to preserve long term gear sets at the cost of a large percentage of gear being unplayed for the better part of a wipe.  Look at it from the outside and it seems ridiculous.  The gear carrot and stick vanishes about halfway up the curve for 60-70% of the mud population.   That's why I suggested more gear around.  Fear of losing gear seems to be a driving force behind deep rent, lack of proper wars, everyone not exploring.
  Blackmagus the question is: Why is someone not playing entitled to have gear when the guy playing doesn't get a shot at it?  If you can't actively play 4 sets of gear you don't get to keep 4 sets of gear.  With limited gear the guy not playing shouldn't have the gear.  If gear limits go up, maybe rent timers should increase too as rented gear isn't going to impact others getting that gear to play.  Unlimited gear would go a long way to solving deep rent.  Why deep rent gear if you're not keeping other people from getting that item?  When so few people play now it becomes very easy for one small group to excel and hide away all the decent gear.
  We want people to play.  Fun game = more players.  Deep rent is the antithesis of fun except for a small group who would have every other player on the mud using iron swords and bronze plate.  I'm just trying to figure out how to remove the most unfun thing on this mud without bringing the whole thing crashing down.

Rus

  • Newbie
  • Posts: 4
Re: The Grind
« Reply #29 on: July 26, 2017, 01:26:11 AM »
Isn't that the same as active decay during rent, which happens anyways? Say someone needs to take a leave of absence for family, medical, military, insanity.. etc., what  do they have to come back to if everything  they had fast-decayed while they were rented?

1. its not the same, coz in case of rent-decay - u can just afk inned few hours/day to ignore this
2. Its not about 'family, job etc' - just few hourts/day in average zonning should be enough to keep low decay.
If 1-2 hours/day of zonning is too much... play another game? Noone saying about 24/7